Best of the Week
Most Popular
1. The Trump Stock Market Trap May Be Triggered - Barry_M_Ferguson
2.Why are Central Banks Buying Gold and Dumping Dollars? - Richard_Mills
3.US China War - Thucydides Trap and gold - Richard_Mills
4.Gold Price Trend Forcast to End September 2019 - Nadeem_Walayat
5.Money Saving Kids Gardening Growing Giant Sunflowers Summer Fun - Anika_Walayat
6.US Dollar Breakdown Begins, Gold Price to Bolt Higher - Jim_Willie_CB
7.INTEL (INTC) Stock Investing to Profit From AI Machine Learning Boom - Nadeem_Walayat
8.Will Google AI Kill Us? Man vs Machine Intelligence - N_Walayat
9.US Prepares for Currency War with China - Richard_Mills
10.Gold Price Epochal Breakout Will Not Be Negated by a Correction - Clive Maund
Last 7 days
Learning Artificial Intelligence - What is a Neural Network? - 20th Sep 19
Precious Metals Setting Up Another Momentum Base/Bottom - 20th Sep 19
Small Marketing Budget? No Problem! - 20th Sep 19
The Many Forex Trading Opportunities the Fed Day Has Dealt Us - 19th Sep 19
Fed Cuts Interest Rates and Gold Drops. Again - 19th Sep 19
Silver Still Cheap Relative to Gold, Trend Forecast Update Video - 19th Sep 19
Baby Boomers Are the Worst Investors in the World - 19th Sep 19
Your $1,229 FREE Tticket to Elliott Market Analysis & Trading Set-ups - 19th Sep 19
Is The Stock Market Other Shoe About To Drop With Fed News? - 19th Sep 19
Bitcoin Price 2019 Trend Current State - 18th Sep 19
No More Realtors… These Start-ups Will Buy Your House in Less than 20 Days - 18th Sep 19
Gold Bugs And Manipulation Theorists Unite – Another “Manipulation” Indictment - 18th Sep 19
Central Bankers' Desperate Grab for Power - 18th Sep 19
Oil Shock! Will War Drums, Inflation Fears Ignite Gold and Silver Markets? - 18th Sep 19
Importance Of Internal Rate Of Return For A Business - 18th Sep 19
Gold Bull Market Ultimate Upside Target - 17th Sep 19
Gold Spikes on the Saudi Oil Attacks: Can It Last? - 17th Sep 19
Stock Market VIX To Begin A New Uptrend and What it Means - 17th Sep 19
Philippines, China and US: Joint Exploration Vs Rearmament and Nuclear Weapons - 17th Sep 19
What Are The Real Upside Targets For Crude Oil Price Post Drone Attack? - 17th Sep 19
Curse of Technology Weapons - 17th Sep 19
Media Hypes Recession Whilst Trump Proposes a Tax on Savings - 17th Sep 19
Understanding Ways To Stretch Your Investments Further - 17th Sep 19
Trading Natural Gas As The Season Changes - 16th Sep 19
Cameco Crash, Uranium Sector Won’t Catch a break - 16th Sep 19
These Indicators Point to an Early 2020 Economic Downturn - 16th Sep 19
Gold When Global Insanity Prevails - 16th Sep 19
Stock Market Looking Toppy - 16th Sep 19
Is the Stocks Bull Market Nearing an End? - 16th Sep 19
US Stock Market Indexes Continue to Rally Within A Defined Range - 16th Sep 19
What If Gold Is NOT In A New Bull Market? - 16th Sep 19
A History Lesson For Pundits Who Don’t Believe Stocks Are Overvalued - 16th Sep 19
The Disconnect Between Millennials and Real Estate - 16th Sep 19
Tech Giants Will Crash in the Next Stock Market Downturn - 15th Sep 19
Will Draghi’s Swan Song Revive the Eurozone? And Gold? - 15th Sep 19
The Race to Depreciate Fiat Currencies Is Accelerating - 15th Sep 19
Can Crypto casino beat Hybrid casino - 15th Sep 19
British Pound GBP vs Brexit Chaos Timeline - 14th Sep 19
Recession 2020 Forecast : The New Risks & New Profits Of A Grand Experiment - 14th Sep 19
War Gaming the US-China Trade War - 14th Sep 19
Buying a Budgie, Parakeet for the First Time from a Pet Shop - Jollyes UK - 14th Sep 19
Crude Oil Price Setting Up For A Downside Price Rotation - 13th Sep 19
A “Looming” Recession Is a Gold Golden Opportunity - 13th Sep 19
Is 2019 Similar to 2007? What Does It Mean For Gold? - 13th Sep 19
How Did the Philippines Establish Itself as a World Leader in Call Centre Outsourcing? - 13th Sep 19
UK General Election Forecast 2019 - Betting Market Odds - 13th Sep 19
Energy Sector Reaches Key Low Point – Start Looking For The Next Move - 13th Sep 19
Weakening Shale Productivity "VERY Bullish" For Oil Prices - 13th Sep 19
Stock Market Dow to 38,000 by 2022 - 13th Sep 19 - readtheticker
Gold under NIRP? | Negative Interest Rates vs Bullion - 12th Sep 19
Land Rover Discovery Sport Brake Pads and Discs's Replace, Dealer Check and Cost - 12th Sep 19
Stock Market Crash Black Swan Event Set Up Sept 12th? - 12th Sep 19
Increased Pension Liabilities During the Coming Stock Market Crash - 12th Sep 19
Gold at Support: the Upcoming Move - 12th Sep 19
Precious Metals, US Dollar, Stocks – How It All Relates – Part II - 12th Sep 19
Boris Johnson's "Do or Die, Dead in a Ditch" Brexit Strategy - 11th Sep 19
Precious Metals, US Dollar: How It All Relates – Part I - 11th Sep 19
Bank of England’s Carney Delivers Dollar Shocker at Jackson Hole meeting - 11th Sep 19
Gold and Silver Wounded Animals, Indeed - 11th Sep 19
Boris Johnson a Crippled Prime Minister - 11th Sep 19
Gold Significant Correction Has Started - 11th Sep 19
Reasons To Follow Experienced Traders In Automated Trading - 11th Sep 19
Silver's Sharp Reaction Back - 11th Sep 19
2020 Will Be the Most Volatile Market Year in History - 11th Sep 19
Westminister BrExit Extreme Chaos Puts Britain into a Pre-Civil War State - 10th Sep 19
Gold to Correct as Stocks Rally - 10th Sep 19
Market Decline Will Lead To Pension Collapse, USD Devaluation, And NWO - 10th Sep 19
Stock Market Sector Rotation Giving Mixed Signals About The Future - 10th Sep 19
The Online Gaming Industry is Going Up - 10th Sep 19

Market Oracle FREE Newsletter

Nadeem Walayat Financial Markets Analysiis and Trend Forecasts

Gold NOT in Bull Market, Nadler Nonsense?

Commodities / Gold & Silver 2009 Nov 03, 2009 - 01:43 AM GMT

By: Mike_Shedlock


Best Financial Markets Analysis ArticleI have sided with Nadler on gold issues in the past, but his claim that gold is not in a bull market is just plain nonsense. Please consider Gold Is Not in a Bull Market

Recently, gold appears to have entered The Mother of All Bull Markets. Even though gold has backed off of its $1,072/oz record from two weeks ago, as of Thursday's close, the market was still up 18 percent for the year and climbing. Interest in the yellow metal—from both individual and institutional investors—has never been higher.

But don't be fooled, says Jon Nadler, metals market analyst and PR head for Kitco Metals, Inc. The precious metals expert says the current bull market in gold is all an illusion—one that the fundamentals can't support for long.

Recently, HAI associate editor Lara Crigger discussed gold fundamentals with Mr. Nadler, including what investors should look for in a gold bull market, why gold supply and demand are so out of whack with prices, and what two events should kick off a price correction.

Lara Crigger: You've written before, "Gold is not in a bull market. The dollar is in a bear market." How do you know? What telltale signs indicate a gold bull market?

Jon Nadler: This phenomenon here has largely been a dollar-driven, dollar-based story, but the requirements for a bull market in gold extend beyond a simple anti-dollar relationship. There are four factors that truly make a gold bull market.

First and foremost, you have to have demand that far outstrips supply. Like any commodity in higher demand than supply makes available, you'd obviously see a price reflection.

Secondly, you'd have to have a falling stock market. The old adage is that gold is an inverse asset to currencies, stocks and other assets—so where's the bear market in stocks? Stocks have been up 50 percent-plus this year.

Third, you'd have to have an actual, tangible inflation level, and the threat of much higher inflation on the horizon as well. We don't see that either, which we'll talk about later.

And fourth, you'd need an increase in the price of gold across all major currencies—no exceptions. You can't have Aussie dollars and the South African rand going one way, while the euro and U.S. dollar is going the other.

Crigger: But isn't gold supposed to be this ideal anti-dollar play?

Nadler: It's not that simple. In fact, statistically speaking, if you look at the correlation between gold and the dollar since 1971-72, it's -0.27. In plain English, that means if you are betting gold as an anti-dollar play, you're likely to lose money 73 percent of the time.


Statistically Speaking

Let's start with a look at two claims made by Nadler, back to back.

Nadler Claim #1: "Gold is not in a bull market. The dollar is in a bear market."

Nadler Claim #2: "Statistically speaking, if you look at the correlation between gold and the dollar since 1971-72, it's -0.27. In plain English, that means if you are betting gold as an anti-dollar play, you're likely to lose money 73 percent of the time."

Somehow gold is rising because the dollar is in a bear market, while statistically speaking there in a negative correlation.

Peculiar Definition of Bull Market

Nadler has a mighty peculiar definition of a gold bull market with four stringent conditions.

1) "Demand has to exceed supply"

The plain fact of the matter is the intersection of supply and demand determines price. Supply and demand will always find equilibrium. Right off the bat one can determine Nadler's definition is complete silliness.

2) "To have a bull market in gold the stock market has to fall"

That is like saying to have a bull market in soybeans the price of paper clips must fall.

3) "You'd have to have an actual, tangible inflation level, and the threat of much higher inflation on the horizon as well"

Nadler does not say why we have to have inflation for gold to be in a bull market; we just have to take his word for it. It would make about as much sense to suggest that to have a bull market in gold, sea turtles must lay a record amount of eggs.

Historically speaking, gold does well in times of credit stress, not in times of inflation. There was inflation every step of the way from 1980 to 2000 and gold fell every step of the way.

However, take a look at periods of credit stress. Nixon closing the gold window was arguably a period of credit stress, and gold certainly did well. We are clearly in a period of global credit stress right now, not just in the US, and gold is doing well.

The great depression was a period of credit stress and a period of deflation as well, and gold did well. This point alone disproves Nadler's contention that gold needs inflation to rise.

4) "You'd need an increase in the price of gold across all major currencies—no exceptions. You can't have Aussie dollars and the South African rand going one way, while the euro and U.S. dollar is going the other."

While there is some merit to suggest the price of gold needs to rise in other than dollar terms, it is another to say it has to be rising against every currency, and still another to define the South African Rand a "major currency".

Gold In Euros, $US, $A, Yen

Chart courtesy of The Privateer

Nadler can believe what he wants, but that looks like a bull market to me.

Indeed the only long term bull markets with no broken trendlines that I can find are gold and US Treasuries. After 30 years, treasuries do not have much left to give, although they will likely be a safe haven against the next stock market collapse.


  • I find it peculiar that the PR head for a metals firm has managed to define bull markets in such a way that gold can never be in one.
  • Nadler's definition is so preposterous that my conclusion is his definition is purposely preposterous.
  • I will leave it to others to hypothesize why that is the case.

The Stock Market, Gold, the US Dollar, Sideline Cash, China

I was on King World News with Eric King discussing Gold, the Stock Market, the US Dollar, Sideline Cash, China, and US real estate. Inquiring minds will want to listen in.

To hear the podcast please click on King World News Mish Podcast.

That is part 1. Part 2 will be coming this Friday.

To hear Eric King's interview with Ron Paul, Rick Rule, Ted Butler and others, please click on the King World News Home Page.

By the way ...

I will be on the panel of speakers at the appropriately misnamed Chicago Natural Resources Conference in Rolling Meadows, Illinois on November 6th & 7th.

For all you deflationists, I would like to point out there is no cost for those who preregister for the conference. Click on the link for details about the exhibitors, speakers, and to register. See ya there.

By Mike "Mish" Shedlock

Click Here To Scroll Thru My Recent Post List

Mike Shedlock / Mish is a registered investment advisor representative for SitkaPacific Capital Management . Sitka Pacific is an asset management firm whose goal is strong performance and low volatility, regardless of market direction.

Visit Sitka Pacific's Account Management Page to learn more about wealth management and capital preservation strategies of Sitka Pacific.

I do weekly podcasts every Thursday on HoweStreet and a brief 7 minute segment on Saturday on CKNW AM 980 in Vancouver.

When not writing about stocks or the economy I spends a great deal of time on photography and in the garden. I have over 80 magazine and book cover credits. Some of my Wisconsin and gardening images can be seen at .

© 2009 Mike Shedlock, All Rights Reserved

Mike Shedlock Archive

© 2005-2019 - The Market Oracle is a FREE Daily Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting online publication.


03 Nov 09, 22:33
Another point

Another point brought up in Nadlers article was the production price of 400 dollars. I just read somewhere (sorry can't find the link) that it is approaching or at 900 dollars. This alone should keep it above 900 if nothing else does. If oil and/or gas rallies (which I'm sure it will at some point)along with inflation then I can't see it falling into the range he is calling for. I, myself, am more of a silver bull but that's another story. I would certainly prefer having a trillion in gold or silver than a trillion in any currency made from a tree, some ink and supposed good faith. My opinion.

Post Comment

Only logged in users are allowed to post comments. Register/ Log in

6 Critical Money Making Rules