Best of the Week
Most Popular
1.Warning Global Fiat Currency Financial System Collapse By Early 2011 - Matthias_Chang
2.The Poor Have No Chance of Joining the Rich, the Game is Rigged - James_Quinn
3.Gold Imminent Breakout and Investment In Failure - Jim_Willie_CB
4.Fear is Driving the Markets, But Don't Let it Drive You - Jon D. Markman
5.Quantitative Easing, Money Velocity Inflationary Armageddon - DeepCaster_LLC
6.Stock Market Crash, Bull or Bear?  - JD_Rosendahl
7.UK Economy Booms Whilst U.S. Stutters, Stocks Fail to Follow Crash Script - Nadeem_Walayat
8.Charts Reveal Stock Market Truths - Barry_M_Ferguson
9.HMRC PAYE Tax Error To Cost Workers £1,400 Each, £400 Rebate for Others - Nadeem_Walayat
10.Debt is Main Threat to U.S. National Security ... Pentagon Must Cut Spending -Washingtons_Blog
Last 5 Days Analysis
Inflation Mega-Trend Long-term Growth Spiral Continues to Drive Stock Market Trend - 5th Sept 10
Non Farm Payrolls: The Devil Is In the Adjustments - 5th Sept 10
HP`s 3PAR Acquisition Makes Strategic & Financial Sense - 5th Sept 10
More Economic Stimulus to Fix Unemployment? - 5th Sept 10
The Economic Insane Asylum - 5th Sept 10
America's Economic Nightmare Is Just Beginning - 5th Sept 10
Middle East Conflict Costs Region $12 Trillion Over 20 Years - 5th Sept 10
Gold Continues to Climb Higher, Where Next? - 5th Sept 10
The Great Traffic Jam of China, Transport Crisis and Investment Opportunity - 5th Sept 10
Population and Productivity Fundemental Drivers for Economic Growth - 5th Sept 10
Stimulus and Full Employment, Averting the Great Depression Again - 5th Sept 10
Gold Continuing Rally or Inevitable Correction? - 5th Sept 10
China Knows the Fate of the Euro - 5th Sept 10
SPX Bounces as Nasdaq Readies for its Next Flash Stock Market Crash - 5th Sept 10
Afghanistan Banking System Crash, Americans to Bailout Afghanistan's Biggest Bank? - 5th Sept 10
Reconstructing The IPCC - 5th Sept 10
Economic Suicide as Economies and the Middle Class are Taxed to Death - 4th Sept 10
U.S. Government Policy Caused America's Unemployment Crisis - 4th Sept 10
Quantitative Easing QE2, Debt Created Out of Thin Air, Banking Crisis Worsens - 4th Sept 10
Rip-Off By The Federal Reserve - 4th Sept 10
Today’s Most Important Price Points in Gold Update - 4th Sept 10
British Columbia Mining Renaissance Continues with Historic Revenue Agreement - 4th Sept 10
Learn How to Create Synthetic SPX Equity Positions Using Options - 4th Sept 10
Inflation and Speculating in Gold - 4th Sept 10
The QE Money Printing Case for Gold and Silver - 4th Sept 10
Agri-Food Price Index Makes New High! - 4th Sept 10
Premium Charts Analysis and Forecasts of Asian-Pacific and European Stock Markets - 3rd Sept 10
5 Reasons To Lock In Stock Market Gains Today! - 3rd Sept 10
U.S. Unemployment Rises to 9.6%, A Look Beneath the Surface - 3rd Sept 10
Gold Mining Stock Margins - 3rd Sept 10
Stock Market Apocalypse Not Yet? - 3rd Sept 10
Peak Denial About Peak Oil - 3rd Sept 10
Bad Monetary Policy Is Redundant - 3rd Sept 10
If a Pure Market Economy Is So Good, Why Doesn't It Exist? - 3rd Sept 10
Stock Market Relief Rally Beckons? - 3rd Sept 10
US Global Consumer Franchise Stocks –Surely Value lies with these Stocks not Bonds! - 3rd Sept 10
Double-Dip Recession Deepens as U.S. Housing Market Collapses - 3rd Sept 10
Moving into Bonds: From Frying Pan to Fire - 3rd Sept 10
Endeavour Merchant Bank Becomes Gold Producer - 3rd Sept 10
Stock Market Nominal Low is Behind Us! - 3rd Sept 10
China Using Government Muscle to Turbo Charge its Auto Industry - 3rd Sept 10
How to Profit From the “Widow-Maker” Trade, Shorting U.S. Treasury Bonds - 3rd Sept 10
Putting an End to Democrats, Liberals, & Progressives...once and for all!!! - 3rd Sept 10
Charts Reveal Stock Market Truths - 3rd Sept 10
The Financial Markets Week in Review - 3rd Sept 10
Exhaustion Gap on Yields Chart! - 3rd Sept 10
For Labor Day Weekend, When Unemployment Happens To You - 3rd Sept 10
UK House Prices and GDP Growth Trends Analysis - 3rd Sept 10
Blowing Bubbles, U.S. Treasury Bonds - 2nd Sep 10
What to Expect for Future Potash Prices - 2nd Sep 10
Is Asia’s Economic Rebound Sustainable? - 2nd Sep 10
China MFG Growth Fuels Global Stock Market Bullishness... - 2nd Sep 10
Think Small Cap Stocks When Investing International - 2nd Sep 10
Stock Markets Treading Water After a Big Up Day - 2nd Sep 10
Militancy and the U.S. Drawdown in Afghanistan - 2nd Sep 10
The Surprise Threat to BP's Future - 2nd Sep 10
U.S. Economic Recovery Collapses - 2nd Sep 10
Obama’s Iraq Speech An Exercise in Cowardice and Deceit - 2nd Sep 10
Fed Engineering a Delebrate State of Slow Economic Collapse - 2nd Sep 10 -
The State's "Inception" Fails, Massive unemployment and failing industries are the reality - 2nd Sep 10
The GOP's Masterplan: Obstruct, Smear, Lie, Repeat  - 2nd Sep 10
Stock Market Crash, Bull or Bear?  - 2nd Sep 10 - JD_Rosendahl
I Renounce Monetarism, That Money Supply is a Leading Indicator for Aggregate Demand - 2nd Sep 10
Hedge Your Bets in Small and Micro-Cap Gold and Silver Stocks - 2nd Sep 10
Quantitative Easing, Money Velocity Inflationary Armageddon - 1st Sep 10
Crude Oil’s Out - Find Out What’s In - 1st Sep 10
Gold Imminent Breakout and Investment In Failure - 1st Sep 10
Rally in Stocks, Commodities, and Risk-currencies Could be Sustainable - 1st Sep 10
How the Stock Market and Economy Really Work - 1st Sep 10
War is Over Wednesday, Stocks Bottom Fishing - 1st Sep 10
Chinese Data Cheers Stock Markets But NFP Looms - 1st Sep 10
U.S. Housing Sales Slump Whilst China's Boom - 1st Sep 10
Government Debt Defaults and Inflation Are the Norm, Not the Exception - 1st Sep 10
10 Financial Scams For Investors to be on Guard Against - 1st Sep 10
How to Buy Silver, Special Report - 1st Sep 10
Warning Global Fiat Currency Financial System Collapse By Early 2011 - 1st Sep 10
The Fourth Turning – Economic and Social Skies Over the United States Darkening - 1st Sep 10
Inflation, Rounding Up the Culprits of Rising Prices - 1st Sep 10
U.S. Taxes Set to Sky Rocket, Protect Your Wealth by Going Global - 1st Sep 10 -
Why the Bank of Japan's Economic Stimulus is Good For the Gold Price - 1st Sep 10 -
Peasgood Preaches Patience on Geothermal Stock Sector Investments - 1st Sep 10
Quantitative Easing Will Trigger Another Wave of Mergers and Acquisitions - 1st Sep 10
Economic Death By Globalism, Economists Haven’t a Clue - 1st Sep 10
Buy Stocks “In The Face Of Fear” - 1st Sep 10 - David_Grandey

Free Instant Analysis

Free Instant Technical Analysis


Market Oracle FREE Newsletter

It's FreeWeek at EWI: Get charts, analysis and forecasts of Asian-Pacific and European markets

How High Can Gold Go Before Peaking - Gold Dow Jones Ratio Important Indicator

Commodities / Gold & Silver Feb 19, 2008 - 01:45 PM

By: Dr_Krassimir_Petrov

Commodities

Best Financial Markets Analysis Article How about $10,000? or $1,000? Or even $100,000? - Calls for the price of gold vary, anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 or even to $100,000. There is one true fundamental problem with all calls for the price of gold – they all ignore the future inflation environment. 

For example, if a genuine Great-Depression-like deflation grips the U.S. economy, then $1,500 for the top of the gold bull market might be too high. On the other hand, if a long 1970 stagflation is in the cards, then $5,000 is too low. The point is that a call for the price of gold without a clear assumption for the macroeconomic environment is a wild and misleading shot in the dark. 


Curiously, once gold shot up to $850, gold analysts did not waste time to update higher their long-term projections for the price of gold. My feeling based on a dozen authors is that the new consensus range for the top is in the $2,000-3,000. I beg to disagree. Their math is simple, but poor. Let me explain.

They say that gold peaked at $850 in 1980; I agree. They say that CPI is up about three times or money supply is up about four times since then; I also agree. It then follows that gold has the potential to peak in the 2,000-3,000 range; now I disagree . Here is one simple reason. We might say that this range is fair if this were the price of gold today . However, it might take four to five years to get there. The trick is that in these four or five years, price inflation and money supply may rise by another 50-100%, so by then the target moves higher, say to the $4,000-5,000 range. Then you need another 2-3-4 years to reach the target. The problem is that the target is moving; it moves approximately with the rate of inflation. 

The advantage of the above approach is its simplicity and intuitiveness. However, it has obvious disadvantages. First, the target is a moving variable with unknown speed. Second, it ignores the macroeconomic environment. Clearly, deflation, stagflation, or strong inflation in coming years will make a world of difference for the target price of gold. Finally, it ignores basic market sentiment indicators like fear and greed.

Actually, a radically different approach provides a much better and much simpler answer. It also avoids the pitfalls of the previous approach. Most importantly, it tells us when the bull market is over. Thus, it tells us when to sell. It is based on the fundamental premise that in the long run, there must be a balance between the relative prices of financial assets and real assets. Roughly speaking, stocks and bonds are examples of financial assets, while commodities and real estate are real assets.

During the decades, the relative prices of real and financial assets swing wildly away from their well-established century-old mean. They inevitably revert to it, and then swing to the opposite extreme. A well-established proxy for the price of financial assets is the Dow Jones Index. The single best proxy for commodities is gold. Their price ratio, the Dow-Gold ratio, tells us how many ounces of gold buy one unit of Dow Jones. If today the Dow is 13,600 and gold is $800, the gold-Dow ratio is 17. Thus, it takes today 17 ounces of gold to buy one unit of the Dow Index.

History tells us is that secular bull markets for stocks can push this ratio high up in the range of 20-50. Look at the chart below. During the last century, there were three such secular (long-term) peaks, in 1932, 1966, and 2000. You can see the three peaks in the 20-50 range.

On the other hand, secular stock bear markets usually coincide with secular gold bull markets. At the secular peak for gold, the Gold-Dow ratio is in the range of 1-2. As you can see on the chart, 1900 recorded a low of 1.7; 1929 recorded a low of two; 1980 recorded a low of about one. This means that when the gold bull market peaks, the price of gold will roughly equal the Dow Jones Index (DJI). Thus, we should expect that gold outperform the DJI in the coming 10-15 years about 10-20 times, in order to bring that Dow-Gold Ratio down to the range of 1-2.

So, how high will gold go? The correct answer is simple: as high as Dow Jones. It is important to understand that this method does not tell us now the end of the bull market. It could be five, ten, or fifteen years from now. It also does not tell us how high. It could be $2,000, or $10,000, or $50,000. But the important point is that it tells us when we are there and inherently keeps track of the macroeconomic environment. 

Which is the most likely price target will depend on how Fed will fight inflation. Based on the Fed's reaction, there are three possible future scenarios: (1) deflation, (2) stagflation, and (3) strong inflation. Let us consider each in turn.

The first scenario , deflation, implies a major contraction in the supply of money and credit, similar to the one during the Great Depression. Consumer and commodity prices would fall rapidly; the stock market and real estate market would collapse. Back then, stock prices and real estate fell roughly 10 times and gold rose only a little. If this scenario were to play out, then a reasonable forecast for the Dow will be about $1,000-1,500, while the gold price will be likely in the range of $800-1,500. This scenario is highly unlikely as the Fed will fight tooth and nail to prevent a deflation from taking hold.

The second scenario , stagflation, is most likely. It should look similar to the 1970s. Back then, the Dow made its peak in 1966. It made little progress for about 15 years, so that in 1980 it was just about where it was in 1966, roughly around 1,000. Gold, on the other hand, rose from a low of $35 all the way to $850. This means that strong inflation during the period kept the Dow from falling, so it did not fall as it did during the Great Depression. On the other hand, inflation powered the price of gold about 25-fold. In this scenario, we should expect the Dow to remain range-bound in the 10,000-15,000 range. Then, a gold forecast of 10,000 is perfectly realistic.

The third scenario , very strong inflation, is definitely possible, although less likely than stagflation. This would mean a typical, commonly-observed inflation of a third-world country, may be 15-25% annually. This kind of inflation could easily power the Dow may be 3-4 times in the coming decade, may be all the way to $30,000-50,000. This could mean a $20 for a loaf of bread or a gallon of gasoline. This would imply a gold price in the range of 20,000-50,000. It is possible, even probable, but in my opinion, not very realistic.

To summarize, I believe that both deflation and very strong inflation are not very likely. The likely outcome will be stagflation. Then a $10,000 price of gold is consistent with this view. This is my price target for 2015-2020. My advice is simple – stay with gold and you will be fine in the long run. 

Krassimir Petrov ( Krassimir_Petrov@hotmail.com ) has received his Ph. D. in economics from the Ohio State University and currently teaches Macroeconomics, International Finance, and Econometrics at the American University in Bulgaria. He is looking for a career in Dubai or the U. A. E.

Dr Krassimir Petrov Archive

© 2005-2010 http://www.MarketOracle.co.uk - The Market Oracle is a FREE Daily Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting online publication.


Comments

James Davies
19 Feb 08, 16:49
Gold-Dow Ratio

The first graph (200 years of the Gold-Dow Ratio) superficially looks impressive.

What the writer seems to have forgotten is that for about the first 170 years of the graph, the price of gold was fixed.

If you plot the Dow against anything that is fixed, it is not surprising that you will get an upward trend.

Another case of "lies, damned lies and statistics." ?


gold
20 Feb 08, 06:18
Gold Standard

"For example, if a genuine Great-Depression-like deflation grips the U.S. economy"

It can not grip that way, since then there was gold standard (even akward one). Now there is no Gold standard for 30 years.


A
20 Feb 08, 06:27
Scenerio 1 Implies Lower Gold Price

"The first scenario , deflation, implies a major contraction in the supply of money and credit, similar to the one during the Great Depression. Consumer and commodity prices would fall rapidly; the stock market and real estate market would collapse. Back then, stock prices and real estate fell roughly 10 times and gold rose only a little. If this scenario were to play out, then a reasonable forecast for the Dow will be about $1,000-1,500, while the gold price will be likely in the range of $800-1,500. This scenario is highly unlikely as the Fed will fight tooth and nail to prevent a deflation from taking hold. "

What do you mean by Gold rose a little bit then? The gold was pegged to dollar then. Artificially. Gold possesions were outlawed. Now the gold price is floating freely (except strong manipulation by officilas, which failing eventually).

To play scenario 1, you need to have gold standard again.


Nerd
21 Feb 08, 18:33
Dow Gold - Does it Matter?

To poster number 1...

Do you understand that the graph simply shows how many gold ounces in $ it takes to equal the Dow Jones Industrial Average?

Why exactly does it matter if the dollar was tied to the gold price or not?


Don Gillies
05 Aug 10, 14:17
Amazing!

That's amazing! The DOW index was invented in 1896, but you give a DOW:GOLD chart going all the way back to 1800 !! If you can do that, can you please give me a DOW chart going all the way forward to 2100? It would be much appreciated ....



Post Comment (Moderated)




(Note Commenting Issue: If after Submitting you are returned to the Main Index Page then due to site caching your comment has not been accepted. Solution - Click the Browser Back Button to the article page and Press PAGE REFRESH (you should see the message "You are not authorized to carry out this operation") Now re-enter your comment (ignoring the notice) - If all's well then you will remain on the article page after submitting, a moderator will check and authorise the comment. Alternatively EMAIL to comments @ marketoracle.co.uk , quoting the article number.

FREE Deflation Survival GuideFREE Updated 118 Page Independant Investor E-book