Best of the Week
Robert Prechter's - The DEFLATION Survival Guide - FREE 60 page Ebook
Most Popular of the Week
1.The Government Will Default on Its Debts- Gary_North
2.How and Why China Will Flood the Gold Market - Jeff Clark
3.Telegraph UK House Price 55% Crash Forecast Revisited- Nadeem_Walayat
4.Nouriel Roubini's 2009 Stock Market Calls Track Record- Nadeem_Walayat
5.Is Debt-Deflation Economic Depression Just Beginning?- Mike_Shedlock
6.Stocks, Dollar and Gold Bull Markets Inter-market Analysis- Nadeem_Walayat
7.United States Catching the Argentinian Economic Disease of Hyperinflation?- John_Mauldin
Weeks Analysis
U.S. Budget Deficit Debt Crisis, Austrian, East European or Glide Option Solution?- 7th Nov 09
U.S. Economy, Investors Say No Worries Mate- 7th Nov 09
What Happened to the Stock Market Crash?- 7th Nov 09
U.S. Dollar Tops, while Precious Metal Stocks Bottom- 6th Nov 09
Financial Markets Profit Opportunity Thresholds Today- 6th Nov 09
Stock Market Investors Open Mind Warning on Highest U.S. Unemployment In 26 Years- 6th Nov 09
Financial Paper Assets Bubble Mania, What Record High Dollar Volume Says- 6th Nov 09
SPX Stock Market and HUI Gold Stocks Pullbacks- 6th Nov 09
Freaking Out over Global Warming- 6th Nov 09
The Path To Runaway U.S. Inflation- 6th Nov 09
Flashback: Bernanke on Unemployment: ‘we don’t think it will get to 10 percent’- 6th Nov 09
Jim Rogers Vs Nouriel Roubini, Can The Commodities Boom Survive? - 6th Nov 09
The Technical Alignment of Gold- 6th Nov 09
Crude Oil Classic Bullish Continuation Pattern- 6th Nov 09
Research In Motion (RIMM) Stock Buyback Chart Analysis- 6th Nov 09
Has Asia Dethroned Detroit as the Auto Sector Leader?- 6th Nov 09
India Buying 200 Tons of Gold, What does it Mean? - 6th Nov 09
The Ultimate Conditions For Economic Recovery- 6th Nov 09
S&P Stock Market Rally To Fail, Lower Lows Ahead- 6th Nov 09
Gold Market Reaching The Breaking Point- 5th Nov 09
Ryan Davies Finds Hot Technology Produces Solar Power for Half the Price- 5th Nov 09
Robert Prechter Current Stock Market Bear and Crash Calls- 5th Nov 09
The Great U.S. Housing Market Foreclosure Robbery Of The 21st Century- 5th Nov 09
Trading and Investing Books to Keep You Sane in an Insane Market- 5th Nov 09
Rethinking the Growing China Stock Market Bubble- 5th Nov 09
Any Way You Slice It, We’re at a Stock Market Top- 5th Nov 09
Five Tips for Trading ETFs- 5th Nov 09
Gold's Last Hurrah? - 5th Nov 09
Who Cares About the U.S. Dollar? - 5th Nov 09
Gold Price Collapse and Market Behaviourism- 5th Nov 09
Is Warren Buffett Implying the Stock Market Will Crash?- 5th Nov 09
When the U.S. Dollar Rallies, the Stock Market Will Crash - 4th Nov 09
The Significance of the IMF India RBI Gold Sales - 4th Nov 09
S&P 500 Stock Market Trends Analysis for November 2009- 4th Nov 09
London Bullion Market Association 2009, The Last Word on Gold- 4th Nov 09
Current Gold Silver Ratio Screams Buy All Things Silver!- 4th Nov 09
China Up / U.S. Down Investment Risk Theme Checkup- 4th Nov 09
Why Gold Has a LONG Way to Go Higher- 4th Nov 09
Can Capitalism Survive? Creative Destruction and the Global Economy - 4th Nov 09
The Best Simple Gold Indicator Around - 4th Nov 09
Gold Price is No Bubble- 4th Nov 09
Dethroning of the U.S. Dollar Will Happen Sooner Than You Think- 4th Nov 09
Stock Market S&P 500 Chart Tells the Truth- 4th Nov 09
Robert Prechter Latest Financial Market Analysis and Forecasts- 4th Nov 09
Central Banksterism- 4th Nov 09
Fed Preventing Financial Institutions From Deleveraging by Propping Up Asset Prices- 4th Nov 09
Peak Silver and Mining by a Falling EROI- 4th Nov 09 - Steve_St_Angelo
Are Biotechnology Stocks Heading for A Downturn?- 4th Nov 09 - Oxbury_Research
Scary Specter of '30s-Style Economic Depression- 4th Nov 09 -Jay Taylor
Telegraph UK House Price 55% Crash Forecast Revisited- 4th Nov 09 - Nadeem_Walayat
Nouriel Roubini's 2009 Stock Market Calls Track Record- 3rd Nov 09
U.S. Dollar at Crossroad, Gold Rally About to End?- 3rd Nov 09
Securitization Bankrupted America, So Who Owns It Now?- 3rd Nov 09
Jeremy Grantham, Stock Markets Being Silly Again- 3rd Nov 09
Make 20 Times Your Money Investing in this Hated Industry- 3rd Nov 09
What is Money and How Does One Measure It?- 3rd Nov 09
Investing in Preferred Shares Dividend Stocks- 3rd Nov 09
Silver set to Soar as it did in the 1970’s- 3rd Nov 09
Has the Stock Market Broken Major Support?- 3rd Nov 09
How to Ride the Commodities Bull Market- 3rd Nov 09
Gold NOT in Bull Market, Nadler Nonsense?- 3rd Nov 09
Life and Debt Video - 3rd Nov 09
State Budgets, How Bad Will it Get?- 3rd Nov 09
States Should Cut Wall Street Out! Own Your Own Bank - 3rd Nov 09
U.S. Third Quarter GDP Too Good to Be True? - 2nd Nov 09
Agri-Food Commodities Continue to Defy Forecasts by Trending Higher- 2nd Nov 09
Are Bank Safe Deposit Boxes Safe? No- 2nd Nov 09
Obama and the U.S. Strategy of Buying Time- 2nd Nov 09
Long Term Equity Valuation, Replacing the P/E Ratio for DR3- 2nd Nov 09
The Political Economy Postponing Providence- 2nd Nov 09
The Ayn Rand Cult- 2nd Nov 09
The Government Will Default on Its Debts- 2nd Nov 09
Economic Recovery, The Great Hoax of 2009-2010- 2nd Nov 09
Is the U.S. Dollar About To Crush Stocks?- 2nd Nov 09
Gold Survived the Test- 2nd Nov 09
Global Economy is Firing on All Cylinders- 2nd Nov 09
Is Debt-Deflation Economic Depression Just Beginning?- 2nd Nov 09
Gold, Silver and Stocks Analysis, Forecast- 2nd Nov 09
Gold Confiscation Risk- 2nd Nov 09
Stocks, Dollar and Gold Bull Markets Inter-market Analysis- 2nd Nov 09
Stocks Bull Market Forecast Update Into Year End - 2nd Nov 09
Geithner Signals Gold Going Much Higher, What to Buy Now- 1st Nov 09
Gold Bull Market Forecast 2009, 2010 Update- 1st Nov 09
U.S. Dollar Bull Market Scenario Update- 1st Nov 09
The Nanny State and the Cost of Unfunded Government Liabilities- 1st Nov 09
Economic Crisis in the Post-industrial Age- 1st Nov 09
Stock Market Down Draft Warning- 1st Nov 09
Stock Markets Sharply Lower on Sustainability Worries of Global Economic Recovery- 1st Nov 09
Halloween and it's Candy Economy- 31st Oct 09
U.S. Dollar Fiat Reserve Currency Root of the Global Financial Crisis- 31st Oct 09
Healthcare Company Profits Sensitivity to Obamacare- 31st Oct 09
UK House Prices Post Annual Gain for First Time in 18 Months- 31st Oct 09
How and Why China Will Flood the Gold Market - 31st Oct 09
Chinese Yuan the Most Undervalued Currency in the World- 31st Oct 09
Financial Markets React Negatively to Reducing Emergency Economic Stimulus- 31st Oct 09
The US Recession Is Not Over, But The Stock Market Party Is- 31st Oct 09
Is the Debt Fuelled Economic Recovery Sustainable?- 31st Oct 09
United States Catching the Argentinian Economic Disease of Hyperinflation?- 31st Oct 09

News Feeds
RSS Feeds

Free Instant Analysis

Free Instant Technical Analysis


Market Oracle FREE Newsletter

Most Popular 2009
1.UK Housing Market Crash and Depression Forecast 2007 to 2012 - Nadeem_Walayat (67,933)
2.Gold Price Forecast 2009 - Nadeem_Walayat (60,634)
3.Depression 2009 The Largest Train Wreck in Economic History - Darryl_R_Schoon (56,968)
4.Nouriel Roubini 2009 U.S. GDP Forecasting 40% Home Mortgage Failures? - Andrew_Butter (47,613)
5.Baby Boomers- Your Generation's Crisis Has Arrived - James Quinn (36.400)
6.The Financial War Against Iceland, Being Defeated by Debt is as Deadly as Outright Military Warfare - Prof Michael Hudson (35,542)
7.Ten Major Threats Facing the U.S. Dollar in 2009 - Eric_deCarbonnel (35,401)
8.Emerging Giants Russia, China, Brazil and India Looming Collapse 2009 - Martin Weiss (34,247)
9.Dow Jones Stock Market Forecast 2009 - Nadeem_Walayat (33678 )
10.Stealth Bull Market Follows Stocks Bear Market Bottom at Dow 6,470 - Nadeem_Walayat (33,082)
11. Economic & Financial Markets Forecast 2009: Collapsing Global Financial System Ponzi Scheme -Ty_Andros (32,413)
12.Hyperinflation Begining in China and Will Destroy the U.S. Dollar - Eric_deCarbonnel (31,215)
13. Stock Market Crash 2009: Fine Tuning DJIA Target To 5,800 - Eric_Chevrette (30,784)
14. .Stock Market to Fall AT LEAST Another 40%! - Martin Weiss (30,336)
15. Economic Forecast 2009: Deflation, Deleveraging, and Recession - John_Mauldin (28,922)
16.How Hedge Funds, Pyromaniacs and Gangsters Caused the Global Financial Crisis - Martin Hutchinson (28,636)
Most Popular 2008
1. The Great Depression 2008 - It can't happen to us....can it?”
2. The Battle for America Has Begun- Strategic Forecasts
3. UK House Prices Plunge Over the Cliff
4. US Banking System Teetering on the Brink of Collapse
5. US Economy Forecast 2008 - First Recession then Recovery
6. How Safe is My FDIC-Insured Bank Account?
7. Rising Risk of a Systemic Financial Meltdown:The 12 Steps to Financial Disaster By Nouriel Roubini
Most Popular 2007
1. US Housing Market Crash to result in the Second Great Depression
2. Operation FALCON - The USA is turning into a Police State
3. UK Housing Market Crash of 2007 - 2008 and Steps to Protect Your Wealth
4. US Housing Bubble Meltdown: "Is it too late to get out"?
5. Global Liquidity Crisis when the Credit Boom comes to an End
Most Popular 2006
1. Last Warning! Three-Pronged Collapse ... Stocks, Bonds and Real Estate
2. UK Interest Rate forecast for 2007 - Bank of England to do battle with inflation
3. UK Interest Rates Forecast to rise much higher due to rising Inflation and high Money Supply Growth
4. Emerging Markets outlook for 2007 - India, China, Russia, Eastern Europe and Brazil

Links

Money Forums
Certz
TradingTheCharts
Housing Market Forecasts
Local Issues


Free Access to Robert Prechters Current Forecasts

The Economic Deflation Debate: Why this time is different

Economics / Deflation Nov 06, 2008 - 01:44 AM

By: John_Lee

Economics It's fascinating to study and observe the distribution of wealth. History has shown great nations and companies that rose to the top from nothing and subsequently fell to nothing.


During the last phase of a boom, few save while most spend on credit. All the money spent flows to a few strong hands. Eventually banks (then private) stop lending, the public is bankrupt, and price deflation follows as people liquidate (so called K-winter). The few strong hands with money have no effect on prices since

a. They are very few in number, thus their consumption doesn't affect prices.

b. They believe their money is worth something, therefore they are in no hurry to spend until deflation is over and inflation picks up again.

This is what happened in the 1930's deflation/depression. Why were those strong hands (JPMorgans, Rockefellers etc) so few in number? First, there simply aren't many smart ones with the sole desire to make money; secondly, the contrarian group by definition is small in number. When everyone is bathed in good times, few can detect the winter is coming.

Those insiders reaped the benefits of deflation and came out even further ahead with their increased purchasing power. Such a theory is supported somewhat in reality as the world's wealth is concentrated in a few dozen hands. Over time, though, few rich manage to keep the wealth. When you have massive wealth (as a country, individual, or company), you attract the unscrupulous, and one careless mistake sinks your entire boat. There is the old Chinese saying-Wealth doesn't pass on 3 generations. Therefore, a fair amount of the concentrated wealth gets redistributed back to the ordinary people.

This is my view on how the world managed to get along reasonably well. 1930's is also what the K-winter / deflationists predict will happen again, as USA seemingly approaches the end of its boom.

This time, however, I believe we won't have K-winter. Refer to points a. and b. above and we see that

1. This time the strong hands aren't few in number. The strong hands with $trillions are in Asia-Just India and China constitute 40% of world population. You see, the Chinese and Indians didn't live under the same roof as the dollar-printing Americans. The general public this time aren't monogamous in spending attitudes and debt level. Asian debt levels aren't even close to their American counterpart.

Asia's share of population consumption will have big impact on prices. We never had such polarized, contrasting general public (one part broke, while the other part rich). Since the strong hands are larger in population size (2 billion vs 600 million in Europe and USA), I'd say inflationary forces are stronger than deflationary. Again, for price deflation to happen, most public must be broke, this just isn't the case today.

2. This time, the strong hands know their dollars are worth nothing. Because they didn't bathe in the golden times and debt bubble, they get to see things clearly. The US government never had such a strong hold in influencing money, banks, and with such corrupt morals-the US gov't doesn't care for the dollar's survival. Such arrogant and ignorant attitudes are demonstrated repeatedly with explicit action (deficits and market manipulation in unprecedented proportions) and statements (printing electronic dollars, helicopter money)

The take away is: K-winter proponents didn't take into account of:

1. The makeup of strong hands. The strong hands this time are large in population, whereas before the strong hands were the elite few.

2. A US government that has lost its time and place. Banks are no longer private, markets are no longer functioning, and few in power care to salvage what's left of the dollar, because they have other ways out (I mean with airplanes and internet access, there are plenty of nice places to live around the world than a bunker hole in Wyoming should things go wrong, right?)

John Lee, CFA
johnlee@maucapital.com

http://www.goldmau.com

John Lee is a portfolio manager at Mau Capital Management. He is a CFA charter holder and has degrees in Economics and Engineering from Rice University. He previously studied under Mr. James Turk, a renowned authority on the gold market, and is specialized in investing in junior gold and resource companies. Mr. Lee's articles are frequently cited at major resource websites and a esteemed speaker at several major resource conferences.

John Lee Archive


Comments


Post Comment (Moderated)




(Note Commenting Issue: If after Submitting you are returned to the Main Index Page then due to site caching your comment has not been accepted. Solution - Click the Browser Back Button to the article page and Press PAGE REFRESH (you should see the message "You are not authorized to carry out this operation") Now re-enter your comment (ignoring the notice) - If all's well then you will remain on the article page after submitting, a moderator will check and authorise the comment. Alternatively EMAIL to comments @ marketoracle.co.uk , quoting the article number.

FREE Deflation Survival GuideFREE Updated 118 Page Independant Investor E-book