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Gold as Currency Never Never Land

Commodities / Gold and Silver 2011 Jan 28, 2011 - 05:35 AM GMT

By: Brian_M_Thiesen

Commodities

Best Financial Markets Analysis ArticleSo if we try to look somewhat objectively trying as best we can to set emotions and beliefs aside, we may see a different angle on some concepts/the future that may come/we envision.

In a total hyperinflationary or hyper deflationary 'collapse' gold will mean virtually nothing.


Not that some market (that no one trusts) somewhere might say its XXXX million per gram in some currency like the bugs want, but to the large majority it will mean absolutely nothing. In fact to a large majority it already means nothing and if you gave a coin to them they would cash it and buy stuff they NEED. (with the MONEY they receive for it)

 When the majority has no use or value for an item it is just that... of no value or use.

I and others who even fractionally disagree with even one thing gold bugs say have to say these things because in the history of investing I’m not sure if any group has been so ‘testy’ (shall we say) as metal bugs. (maybe dotcommers, maybe realtors a bit ago, bond guys in the 80’s) all of which had/have tunnelvision....  hint hint

Put it to test for yourself even. Go to a mall even go to 4 malls because they are high traffic areas maybe a Starbucks is better! Like most towns there will be the rich end, poor end etc, so you could get a good all around idea demographically etc, ask the first 100 or so people if they have even 1 gold coin. I will bet at least 98 or more will say N O

Go ask 100 people if they need to eat to live 100 will say yes. (except gold bugs of course)

Now if you get someone who says yes say to them “if you had 50 maple leafs, in the event of a collapse would you want to share for the common good?”.... more on that below.

Now it is commonly known ( a few %) that %90 of the wealth is owned by %10 of the people. Some would even say 1 / 99 people to wealth.

OK so we have this understood. However even here to support themselves the bugs will throw this out the window like all else.

So if we have roughly (Again people's/sites numbers vary) $15 trillion of available gold and silver in a $50 trillion economy PER YEAR how is it gold and silver will be a currency?

Are we to magically destroy the economy by %60-70 in one year and then after and after?  A world economy destroyed by that much among the commoners gold will be useless. All those who don’t consider themselves a commoner or that they will have no contact with such at any time, or that they will be in a separate economy on another planet, this does not concern you.

So then out of let's say even $20 trillion in above ground and still usable metals like silver and gold (this is to say that the numbers being mentioned reflect ALL KNOWN MINED of the 2 metals and I will still let it be that none has been used in any industry or jewelry to help the bugs even more mathematically) and %90 is owned by a small minority, that leaves 2 trillion for the rest of the world to 'get along with' doesn’t it?

So 6 300 000 000 people get to share 2 trillion DOLLARS of gold and silver?
(%10 of 7 billion= 700 million.  7 billion - 700 million= 6 300 000 000)

Let's say we all get $1000 for the rest of our lives to live, if the case ask “what would I buy? Besides oxygen what do i need?”

Bugs please explain to the people how this works. How an economy of $50 trillion, turns into a $2 trillion (for life) economy, without anything happening. You say much will happen? So do I which doesn’t help your “theories” either.

So that looks like to me like not a whole lot of cash.

So this to me rules out the “but gold was used as cash before” argument... was that when there were 70 000 000 people or 7 000 000 000 people? Unlike for the Fed, in this case zeros are important.

Also to keep in mind hundreds if not thousands of items have been used to exchange goods like food, timber, cotton, plant extracts, medicines, narcotics etc.

NOT JUST GOLD AND ONLY GOLD FOR ETERNITY.

So instead of that what might people turn to that they know and trust and will keep them alive? (in this scenario the bugs call for) F O O D/ Calories/ Units of labour CLOTHING AND SHELTER or that which will provide/procure such.
Could it be in such a scenario people would actually have to leave their living room or basement and do stuff instead of letting some poor soul do it in some far off land for %98 less cash then they would do it for?

But who wants to do that when you can just sit around and watch a ticker go up and down while others do everything? I know a particular group of people who do this, they are called BANKERS. (small time traders count yourself out as you actually have to work not rig markets to make cash)

Or when in this ‘collapse’ the people who produce let's say grain are just magically going to hand over to you twice as much grain from one month to the next because some market says silver or gold doubled?

So all you had to do (fantasy/banker time again) was hold an object while the rest of the people put in work, and you think after all that they will just hand over their goods for your payment because YOU or some market BELIEVE they should?
Does that make any sense at all?

Speaking of getting paid, guess where the word SALARY comes from? People used to accept salt as payment in Roman times (crazy it wasn’t only gold/silver huh)

Why did they bring Gold Frankinscence and Myrrh (gold was worth less than both items at the time. All of South America had zero use for gold as currency and used it for decoration etc. What was the difference between them and the conquistadors? Belief that it was worth something. Can we see it has been and is even remotely possible now for something besides gold and only gold to work?

How is it magically all the nations who's political parties can't even agree on the smallest issue and with at least 40 global conflicts going on (looks like to be more because of the gold.... or was it FOOD riots), are magically all going to go to never never land and agree on some type of gold backed currency and declare world peace at the same time? We even saw a small group of nations try this and failed.

Why? who has more gold? Who has more silver? Who has more silver mines? Who has ZERO silver or gold or mines for either? We have cotton why not include that? We have timber? We have oil? We have no oil? We grow Heroine? we grow Cocaine? (both of which are worth way more than gold/ounce.... so we can see what is really valuable and where and why we would fight for it.... and it is renewable as well.... but that is another article.)

This could AND WOULD go on forever! (until of course the warships get called out) which is another time where people don’t care about spot prices (lets maybe recall WWII to try and refresh our memories when all the pigeons across Europe virtually disappeared so people could EAT something besides gold cereal.

Now getting back to the 10/90 (not the hairstyle) line of thinking. Does anyone in their right mind truly believe these guys whoever you believe they are and what they believe will just magically equally distribute their gold to start things off evenly after all these 100's of years of piling it up? AND expect nothing? AND also want anything less than ABSOLUTE CONTROL?

$%^# NO they wouldn't !

So even in the event that a global pixie dust phenomenon happened these 'players' would still be in ABSOLUTE CONTROL of this magic currency. WHICH IS THE PROBLEM, NOT FIAT, NOT PAPER, NOT SWAPS. IT IS NOT A ‘WHAT’ BUT ‘WHO’ PROBLEM.

In which case, should anyone with a brain come to believe much would change?

They would still control the expansion and contraction of the FTC (fairy tale currency)
In the times leading up to the FTC what would anyone do?

People who tout gold as the greatest thing since sliced bread live in so many camps it's unreal. Sliced bread is precisely what causes problems.

"Everything will hyper deflate (how many dow 0000 calls have we seen by gold bugs) but somehow gold will skyrocket when trillions of dollars disappear? No one will have to pay margins? Nothing? Ok let's say this does happen.

Does that mean nothing else goes up in price? like THINGS PEOPLE NEED TO SURVIVE. Sometime I wonder if gold bugs have found a way to eat their gold and silver and metal ! Let me know how that works, love to try it!

"There will be hyperinflation" does this mean there will be a bullion dealer on every corner to cash in my gold for what %99.99 of retailers except as cash? (USD) Which is not gold by the way. BUT PAPER LIKE IT OR NOT.... PAPER.

So no matter what you will get rich hyperinflation, hyper deflation, hyperflationflation.... sounds a little bit to good to be true.... AND IS. (just like real estate and the aforementioned “NEVER LOSE”  situations)

Thousands of people in your county have lost their pensions, jobs, houses and ways and means to live. (which also means these people, LIKE %95 or more...) cannot be glued to their trading screens checking spot price of gold. In hyperdeflation or hyperinflation this is what would happen but of course not for gold bugs magically everything would change AND STAY THE SAME in some sort of 5th dimensional time warp.
I say county and not country because in this scenario, everything becomes small and primal so your general vicinity is what matters (the local farmer not the plantation in Chile) not COMEX pricing... sorry bugs.

So do you think anyone besides you in your area (gold bugs) is going to give a rats A$$ about the price of gold when they and their kids are starving? If you haven’t eaten in 7 days and you have a gold bar and someone, somehow has a fresh and hot slice of pizza and you know it might be the only food you see for a few days your bar becomes.... drum roll please... worth a slice of pizza! Or if you havent eaten in 7 days and you have a firearm (In the states about 80 million... way more by a long shot than gold) and gold is the king of the world... what will you do? who will you look for?
This has happened many times... but lets not mention things that don’t support our positions.

Unless of course you live right beside the (already plundered) bullion dealer and he is also right beside a farm who will except gold or cash and NOT FOOD  or anything of REAL VALUE in this scenario because he is a nice guy. Also not how it works. Except of course in GOLD BUG FANTASY LAND.

Also consider the ratio of Grocery/Food Distributors to bullion dealers take your wildest guess. Do you think there is a reason for that? FOOD is closer to money than gold will ever be.
 Also consider when it is that store will just magically say “Hey now we accept gold”

“Why don’t you take all of aisle 4 and we’ll accept that coin you have that you say is worth $5000. By the way be sure the other coin in your pocket will protect you from the mob outside on your way out. Just so you know they will not be after your precious coin”

Just so we can be clear if it is that 'all collapses,' (THE BUGS EMOTIONAL SELL POINT) that means farmers and truckers and ships (including fuel suppliers) can’t or don’t get paid which means they don’t move which means those bananas and the like don’t make it to Michigan or wherever you are. 1) because they cant get trucked there and 2) most food items require massive amounts of gas to produce. Sounds like a small problem doesn’t it? Maybe even a problem slightly bigger than spot gold at the time wouldn’t you say? Keep in mind if war is the bug of your likings’ scenario of choice, who do you think will be first in line for fuel? Truckers or drones and tanks? The public or the military?

Which means that trillions of calories are lost in the food chain (or am i way off here) beyond what is already happening in the environment/naturally etc. Which means supply drops off the board.... which means the demand for whats left skyrockets.
Not rocket science folks (keep in mind the scope of the logic before you fire off numbers to me about gold demand and supply mindlessly which I have no doubt you will)

Just think or look out how much of your food is local? (I know there will be some exemptions and some places who have a % of local food.... like where I live) Do tomatoes etc really grow year round or at all in your area among other things?
If so in this 'collapse so buy gold or your a fool' scenario do you think that will be 2.49/lb or simply not there? We are very much dependent on a smooth running system.

Consider this as well
In the First Depression there were 150 000 000 people in USA and %46 were involved in some capacity in agriculture.
Today there are 350 000 000 and around %1 are involved in agriculture
How do those odds stack for a smooth transition into what we need to survive in “ation times” maybe we can all head to the mines?

So given that gold is not edible (not saying gold isn’t going up somewhere on some chart in some currency) but whether or not in such a scenario will it mean anything.
Also given no one can buy gold if they are dead from starvation (maybe in the bugs 5th dimension)

So then even if it is ‘valuable’, you will be trading it for food and then when you are done with your supply, what do you have? Maybe an empty safe and stomach? Wow really did a lot of good there didn’t it? The simple farmer will have stock piled your gold, the gold of others, had a means to acquire more and be FULL, with land, a house etc.

WHO IS THE FOOL NOW? WHO IS THE RICH ONE NOW? the simple “Stupid Farmer” who didn’t buy gold at any time!!!

As I have said in such a scenario you are better off with a patch of grass and a cow! As at least this person can produce something. Which is why the "buy and get rich on gold" scenario works... because that person could believe they wouldn’t have to do anything except be rich in the event of a collapse which plays right into everyones do nothing fantasy... perfect isn’t? We have fantasies, emotions and money all coming together... sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

We are on this site and sites like it because we have interest in these things. Ask yourself what is %99 of the rest of the people doing? Playing Call of Duty? Watching some dumb show where nobody ever seems to have their shirt on seemingly always itching their opposite bicep and are constantly drinking in and getting in and out of hot tubs?
%99 of people have no idea whats going with anything let alone what gold 50 EMA or whatever is. What do you think the people who have spent the last 5 years watching ‘dancing with the has beens’ are going to do? Run around like monkeys (sorry maybe a compliment)... run around like chickens.... (maybe again)... run around like rats looking for food. (maybe even running around like rats looking for rats to eat)

As I have also said gold is a bankers wet dream as a currency, if people don’t have gold what can they do? Sell everything to pay their debts? in such a case prices for everything would plummet and what would people want? AGAIN IT IS FOOD TO AT LEAST LIVE TO BE ABLE TO CHECK THE SPOT PRICE OF GOLD EVERY 5 MINUTES!!! So understand then that if gold is to somehow be a currency it will only be so the bankers can gain some MORE advantage than they already have.

SO IT WILL NOT SOLVE ANYTHING AS ALL WOULD STILL BE CONTROLLED BY THEM BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THEY ALREADY HAVE %90 OF THE STUFF.  Even if they don’t  have %90 now they would have %90 before it was used for some type of backing. Since it is with %100 of these situations they are well ahead, even by years, of all trades.

BE very sure that when bankers have the advantage (like they do now and still would in this scenario) the rest of us do not prosper so even in this event, you are no better off than the rest of us.

 

You had better be close to %100 sure in your area this will become currency or you would be screwed in this scenario (please note i am not saying you cannot profit with gold) LIKE YOU CAN ON ANY TRADE IF YOU ARE SMART. WHICH MEANS BUY, THEN.... as crazy as it sounds SELL to realize profits.

But you must think things out, because no analyst with a massive interest in gold (like MR. T. the financial expert ) is going to tell you info. They are going to play on your emotions and fantasies like they always do to get you to buy something.

In this scenario only the very well prepared stand a chance and if you think because you have a pile of coins that is ‘preparation’ you are very sadly mistaken.

Money is nothing but the belief by a majority that it is just that... money.
I know for so many this is a tough concept to get but just look around you, what are the worlds currencies backed by? not gold! not silver! Not anything but belief.

So again be damn sure that even %51 of people will believe it to be CURRENCY. This is where the whole go to the mall or Starbucks comes in so you yourself can see for yourself and do your own research to try and make an informed decision on where to put your money.

I will also say money can be backed by one other thing.... large warships, guns, missiles and soldiers so if you don’t want to believe, you can be made to or else.... Remind you of a planet in your galaxy? Maybe the bankers will use our blood to back a FTC... what a great world it would be then right?

Sorry bugs by my math you are nowhere near a majority... which means you are in never never land (as in the word NEVER) Tunnel vision serves no one in life and especially in investing or preparing for the 'collapse' of the free (or serf) world.

 Again so egos don’t get confused, this is not to say gold wont go up X % just to say in the collapse you call for it may not be worth as much as you think and definitely will not get you rich, make you look cool, feed your family and let you do nothing like you may be being lead to believe it will. Or you have convinced your self it will.

Now go to your spot where your gold is and look at it again maybe for the first time, maybe say to yourself, sure I can make X DOLLARS on this unit if I buy AND SELL it AT THE RIGHT TIME, but it will not do the above. Sure gold has gone up X %... When did you buy? I know that %99 of the time the best time to buy is when there are the least amount of buyers so I think we can safely discount that most Missed most of the Boat on this trade as usual. (trade means buy and sell)

Or let your belief stand in the way and say “This will feed, cloth and shelter me and also protect me in times of need” But maybe if you do that you will realize you have a Rifle in one hand and something of the metal variety in the other which will ACTUALLY perform all those functions and then some in such a scenario.

That, some brains, 2 legs/arms, your family, a strong community, willing to work together and not say “he is the almighty king because he bought gold” will get you by if it unfolds the way you say it will (which I, by the way, believe it very well will)

If it is you are in such a situation and sitting on a pile of gold and silver or whatever and you could honestly sit there and watch others starve then go and be with the banksters you profess to hate, because that seems to be what you want to be and will have become.

The more people like you that around the less better off this planet is. THAT IS ONE THING I DO KNOW AND HOPE WE CAN ALL AGREE ON. THAT IS WHAT TRULY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MESS WE CALL HUMANITY AND ENDING THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL SOLVE IT.....not gold.

As always accepting hate mail because I disagree with you filled with incoherent arguments and data points, and rebuttals to things I didn’t even say. (Be sure I am not talking about your last emotionally charged argument with your significant other) Which usually is a sign of emotion getting in the way, which means %99 of the ability to think rationally is gone out the window, which means whatever or whoever you have given your money to has got you right where it wants to. %1 odds on a trade is not what you want just so you know.

If you want a smooth running system you will need something that is in plenty of supply, people can trust, can use and believe in. For now like it or not that is USD etc. If those ALL GO TO ZERO, what do you think will be first on the list and was back in the times you claim gold was the only currency? FOOD

What will qualify for that in case of ‘survival?’
Things that meet primal instinct. These are FOOD CLOTHES SHELTER, gold is nowhere on that list. Humans are a funny breed we think we have to invent all kinds of games, markets and gimmicks to make it work.

When in reality everything is right before our eyes only we cant see it because it is so simple in our ever growing need for complexities.... complexity is vulnerable... we see a very complex world right now and of course one that is quite vulnerable.

My email is right here, send me anything you ever find about “gold riots” happening anywhere at anytime. But for now, notice what is going on about the things that really matter, food and the rioting over that because of the inflation you have called for. Also notice there are more dynamics than “DOLLAR COLLAPSE” at play here since the dollar has not moved for a year... But wheat can go up %90? We can only wonder what will happen when that gets passed on. I think we are seeing that now and in the coming years as we speak.

GOT FOOD?

by the way, this is your solution and no it does not involve buying coins to solve the worlds problems:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27340.htm

Brian Thiesen
brianthiesen7@gmail.com

Brian Thiesen is a distributor for Net Office Solutions and Director of Marketing for Unified Products and Unified Fields Agriculture. All set for launch in 2011. Owner of PM’s

© 2011 Copyright  Brian M. Thiesen - All Rights Reserved Disclaimer: The above is a matter of opinion provided for general information purposes only and is not intended as investment advice. Information and analysis above are derived from sources and utilising methods believed to be reliable, but we cannot accept responsibility for any losses you may incur as a result of this analysis. Individuals should consult with their personal financial advisors.


© 2005-2019 http://www.MarketOracle.co.uk - The Market Oracle is a FREE Daily Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting online publication.


Comments

dincer
28 Jan 11, 14:24
the same old cliche

"gold as currency never never land" means "free market capitalism never never land" Sooner or later gold and silver shortages will become mainstream media news. Governments do not have unlimited control over precious metals. When it comes to deployment of central bank gold reserves to calm down gold shortages, it is more a PR problem. FED, ECB or BoE can print or swap dollars, euros or pounds to ease a liqudity crunch, but having to sell or swap the "country's gold" to a foreign country or international market is not a popular policy choice, although central banks claim that gold belongs to private banks not the public. Many people consider their central bank's gold as one of the country's assets like land, seas or forests, nobody will want to give up his gold. So introducing gold as a monetary asset along with well managed (this point is very important) fiat currencies must be considered. Every large scale financial crisis ends with precious metals illiqudity cos precious metals are real money. This time will be no different.


doggings
28 Jan 11, 16:22
lessons of history?

can you name one time gold hasn't stored value though a fantasy paper collapse in the entire course of human history?

was gold worthless back in Medieval times when many thousands starved to death? - even though you couldn't eat it?

this anti-gold rant is as emotinal as anything I've ever seen from the even hardest core goldbugs.

let me guess, youve been calling bubble since $650 when you sold yours?


john d
29 Jan 11, 14:33
gold

Gold above ground was about 1 ounce per person in Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece and Ancient Egypt,

about 0.8 ounce per person in Ancient China and ancient Arabia,

about 0.5 ounces per person in Medieval Europe

Later in Europe (after plundering Americas) it went to 1.5 ounces per person.

Right now gold is about 0.7 ounces per person. (divide 150000 tonnes per 6 billion people).

So if roughly 1 ounce per person perfectly worked during all this time - since 5000 years ago, why shouldn't it work now.

The gold just need to be repriced to about 60000 of modern dollars per ounce.

That's it.

Than it will work perfectly fine (before dollar devalued further).

In the thriving Italy during medieval time you could buy a palace (meaning a palace,not a random house) with just 100 ounces of gold.

Notion that 1 ounce of gold worth a good suite is also misleading - not just a suit, but a royal set of clothes.


Brian Thiesen
31 Jan 11, 04:55
1, 2, 3 Still never never

1. There is tonnes of gold in the vatican that we will never ever know of. This can be released at any time to "quell" any shortages. Any shortages if not doing that will be done on purpose, again for bankers to tighten grip. Shortage is reported or leaked, then for some reason JPM and GS are way long and raking it in use the money to cover the shorts they had, on tax payer dollars. Or they crash and all hell breaks loose. I will have a gun, bullets and food. I will come for your ever increasing gold, with my mob and think nothing of what you or the comex do or say. You %1 have fun, %99 will have there fun. Hows that? THIS IS THE CHAOS YOU SITE FOR GOLD $123000 not me. It takes 1/10th of a brain to realize it will not be chaos and not chaos at the same time... like gold bugs believe.

EVERYONE says metal is money, it is 1 of thousands of things at any time physical or otherwise that can be considered money (JUST LIKE PAPER can be valued at anything anyone will believe it to be and is to this day) Bags of urine could be considered money if we believed them to be worth something (in 1600-1700 france the rich bathed in urine and paid for it!) so it was MONEY.

Read again urine in a bag was money... the way you see it!

So it is that NOT JUST GOLD AND ONLY GOLD UNTIL THE END OF TIME AND ALL OF THE PAST tIL THE BEGINNING OF TIME is or was money.

Understand as was written we all know the game, for the 15th time (i think) It IS NOT WHAT IS MONEY BUT WHO CONTROLS IT. Gold will be money for only one reason, banker control.

2. No didnt sell my gold at $650, but bought some there and sold most at $1200, nice profitable trade wouldnt you say? Dont care as long as green all good for me. Will it go to $5000 sure maybe and i will have got out early, I cant even count how many times i have got out early on a profitable trade, but I can count how many times I felt bad for it... ZERO.

Also wasnt the dollar supposed to crash with all the other currencies 50 times since 2000? or was it 50 times last year alone and it didnt even move.

Yes all those currencies crashed, look at history as to why. WHO WAS IN CONTROL AT THE TIME? BANKERS AND RICH DUDES TRYING TO SCREW ANYONE. What has changed since then? NOTHING. Who "won" bankers. Lincolns greenbacks were doing just fine, until the bankers killed the currency and him! So was it the bankers or the PAPER?.... Bankers! think a Currency backed by gold wont get manipulated etc. as long as they are around? You guys are blind. Get rid of bankers not paper. especially since you say Gold backed currency, which is paper backed by gold. suppose that doesnt make sense?

Was gold worthless... maybe not... was everything besides gold worthless and the only thing anyone used was gold? N O Medieval times was a bunch of dudes with a bunch of gold (AND EVERYTHING ELSE) watching everyone suffer and die. (remind you of now at all? or every period, day, year, since then?) So again now time #16... it is not what but who. Who was clammering in the streets for more gold at that time or any other time in history, please email me directly with your coherent answer. We can sight thousands of times where food meant everything to all but %1 of people (watched the news lately)

3. So gold was 1 ounce ten ounce whatever, what did we have at all those times? A shortage of rich and a surplus of poor, now it is even more than it was. Hence they would love it if gold came as currency. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE IT ALL!!! And they would be well prepared and profit much more than than you ever will if it does, and would be out near the exact top, and if not, they would get you to cover their losses.

NOT WHAT, WHO.

Reprice gold to $60 000/ounce, go buy some bread, have fun with that! A it wont exist and B if it did it would be $800 a loaf C you would be getting it from a govt... banker wharehouse... (this has also happened thousands of times even is now today)

Read the article, especially the part where i welcome incoherent data points about things i didnt say or mean nothing. Or even on things i agree with SOUND MONEY ETC.

Hold your gold forever, seriously it is the best and only investment ever Fools are the ones who bought S&P at low (WHERE ALL GOLD BUGD CLAIM TO HAVE BOUGHT) and made %100 profits or more, what idiots huh? Whoever bought rare earths are so dumb to have made %500 in a year or two! Whoever shorted a few years ago were idiots and should have bought gold.

Tell everyone with over 10k to retire with that gold is the only way (thats 26 ppl in the USA) tell them to buy now so when the DXY rockets up in 5 months they can come over and hug you!

What has been the most common thing since gold or paper or timber or oil or cotton in ALL OF THE PAST? HUMANS AND THEIR LUST FOR CONTROL OF IT, Do us all a favour truly make this a better place and get rid of this in you, if you dont you are a mere banker, greedy and hell bent on the destruction of others which in the end is the destruction of you.

GOT FOOD? at least that can also construct to! IS there anything it cant do?


Ernie Messerschmidt
31 Jan 11, 13:29
correct analysis, just go a little further

Penetrating analysis in real terms, really enjoyed it. Money is indeed what people believe in, social credit (Latin cred = believe). That it needs to be a commodity is a stupid idea. It is tokens that are needed to represent value so that commerce can be carried on. You just need to take it a little further and realize that credit being money, it should be public, not privately created for private gain. So public banking and public credit are the obvious answer. Read Web of Debt by Ellen Brown for a full understanding.


Jill
04 Feb 11, 09:35
gold

Just take a significant portion of your savings and buy physical gold. Don't worry, you won't have to eat it.

Good luck, you'll need it.


GetZeeGold
10 Feb 11, 06:52
We all get paid in pizza.....cause paper money is....umm...paper

So you work and get paid with a check.

Do you eat the check...no

Do you give the supermarket the check...no

You deposit the check and get paper money...yes

Do you invest money...yes

Will the supermarket accept your stock...no

Is any of this catching on?


g kaiser
11 Feb 11, 08:58
gold for savings

If I ask 100 people if they have any savings, the answer of 98 of them would be no!

The fact is that the vast majority of people have not got the control and the knowledge to save, so if they don't save in gold or in fiat, what is the difference?

The reason I save in gold, and I do! is that I don't trust banksters, politicians, and the majority of financial advisers. One thing I know for sure, is that it takes hard work, sweat and literally blood to bring one ounce of gold to the surface of this world. It does not tarnish, evaporate it does not get eaten by rats etc etc, in short, it is the perfect material to store, representing wealth.

That is why I will any day sell you my fiat toilet paper, if you have gold.

The government can control your paper money or even easier your digital money. A couple of strokes of a key on a computer, and you are toast. Think about it.

And you say I can't eat my gold, can you eat your fiat??

Nonsense! When Rome is burning, who will have purchasing power, paper with ink or gold? Provided anything can still be bought, gold will be the medium to do it in. Apart from that, barter, but no-one, none! at that stage will accept paper money, not even if it carries the prettiest picture of the Bernank.


Dr. Jones
15 Feb 11, 15:30
Gold vs. Food (Steel Cage Match)

Food = Absolutely Necessary for Human Survival (Reality)

Gold = Not Necessary for Human Survival (Fantasy)

Therefore: Food > Gold

It's so simple in theory, but yet we've somehow made this increasingly complex since we graduated Kindergarden. The only distortion which leads to this ridiculous complexity is the variable which may ultimately provide the platform for the end of humanity as we know it... GREED.

Greed = Bad News

Guess what?!

Fictional Character Gordon Gekko lies... (EVIL)

Snap out of your FANTASY

I'm hungry. What's for dinner?

Anybody want to trade me a cow for a gold watch?

endoftransmission


brian Thiesen
16 Feb 11, 21:30
Real Money? Gold? Silver?

When you can spend what you call "real money" at over %1 of stores on the planet... I will maybe even consider to call it "real money" When your grocery store and farmers and all this and that have a comex board up, willing to take the few coins the bankers do not have that will be when gold or silver will be "real money" anything can be real money. When %90 or more of the currency you say without a doubt will be currency is "not available" How liquid is that? How available is that?

It is hilarious to see people calling fiat paper, yes it is. But i can take it somewhere... anywhere... anytime and get goods for it. Go to any store (besides a bullion exchange) and get something for your gold... Watch the looks you will get, they are priceless.... How about even going to a bank to sell your gold.... nope not happening at %98

Everyone seems to think I am some sort of banker monopolist who is against sound currency... please read the article... I am for sound currency, i just dont have a one track mind that gold is the only one that can be, nor do I believe for a second it is a "must" for a currency, as we can clearly see that right now, i doubt even 1 currency is backe by any amount of gold. Again i am not saying this is perfect or sound or the way to go, just that gold is not required nor silver.

It is the belief, in times of survival it is what is beleived to be of worth that makes it of worth. When trucks dont move and so on and so on. And all the fools who live for the grocery store have no food and %90 of the "guranteed only solution currency" is hoarded by bankers.... what do you see happening?

Talk to anyone who has worked through or been around a disaster, Haiti, Katrina, Pakistan, Tsunami..... Ask them if even one transaction was done with gold... Ask them if clean water or food or fuel etc. were "hot items"

When a hurricane approaches Florida, do you see anyone running to the Bullion dealer? No what do they do?

I am not saying fiat "is the way to go" I am not saying gold right now is worthless or wont go up or down. Look at what is written.

Some people say they dont trust the banks thats why they buy gold? What sense does this even make, again do we know who owns %90 of the gold? Do we even fathom that miraculously gold will skyrocket, all the banks will disappear, and those with gold will be rich, fat, surviving without worry or whatever fantasy.

Do we really beleive banks will "lose out or rot" if gold or silver goes up? Do we really beleive it is impossible for banks to go long gold or PM's Do we also beleive if they lose on shorts we wont end up paying while we celebrate golds "rise" Thinking all is well but the people who perpetrated this mess are still in %100 control?

Shorting the dollar, longing gold bla bla bla? what changed? the foxes are still in the henhouse, while the peasants celebrate a pitily victory that the bankers were the one who really profited from.

When people realize they are the most valuable commodity, this world will be better. Your mind and body one of which they control (your body) they other they relentless try to control (your mind) are the most valuable... this is why they try so hard.

If you understand Canaanite/Phonecian banking maritime admiralty law uniform commercial code... you will very soon realize gold,oil, dollars etc. mean nothing, owning you is the goal, while you are distracted by 401k's American Loser, Superbowl they are diligently circling the wagons.

All the while you had no idea it was even happening.

So love your gold and silver hate paper, buy food, buy big screens, whatever you want... Money means nothing to these guys, it is about power and control.... just look around and open your eyes.

I will take my FIAT to the store now while you watch your flat screen or play texas hold em. Let me know if you know anyone who buys these things with gold.... Then we can talk REAL MONEY


Onc' Scrooge
17 Feb 11, 04:15
Purchasing with PM already possible!

Hi Brian,

you don't tell the people what they should do to prepare the coming crisis you tell them only what they shouldn't do - to believe in gold and silver.

You're right in:

food is more important than gold

shelter (a warm home) is more important than gold

minmum clothing is more important than gold

personal securtiy is more important than gold

health is more important than gold

So if you have a lot of paper money what you have to do:

1. buy a stock of peanut butter, flower, bacon, corned beef ... for at least 2 years to feed family

2. have clothes for everybody for some years

3. in best buy a farm house (in a lonesome save area) with a great garden, some other land, a litte forest, technical installation and tools, water, a house which can be warmed with wood...

4. learn (or have somebody in the family you knows) how to grow plants and vegetables and how to work with farm animals - learn riding a horse ...

5. buy arms and protection, medicine and drugs...

But if you have done (nearly) all these preparations (as I've done) and you have again a lot of paper money what to do with it ?

This paper will be worthless in some time like every other paper in history - try to buy something with a Colonial or a Continental banknote of 176x-178x or with a CSA or a Obsolete Note of the 19th century - you won't get anything for this paper (even if they are rare numismatical notes).

You have to change your paper into something which has at least the chance to keep a little bit of the value.

It could for some people also be that they live in a big city and that they don't like to live in the countrysite and they hate to work in a garden or a forest or they must go to work everyday in the city.

These guys are very limited in the above preparations.

What should they do?

Living in the European countryside I might also have another access to money as the Americans have.

For example I have never had a credit card in my life (!)

which is not sign of poverty but of mental distance to the banks. I simply don't need a credit!

All my purchases of everyday and even new cars I buy with (sound) banknotes. An American can't imagine paying $50000 legally in banknotes! But in the last year I began to pay also with gold and silver coins (you are right not everybody will take it yet but some businessmen/workers etc. will to accept or even like this already - the remonetisation of gold and silver is slowly beginning at least in our country)

There are also some rare businessmen accepting exclusivly only payment in gold (which is accepted by our tax if the books are kept in Euro).

I will say that you (the Americans) are in the moment not able to judge a sound currency because you won't even use legal paper money for normal purchases but mainly digital plastified bits.

But the problem is when the banks are down and the credit cards wont't give any money anymore you must have a barter currency to replace the system.

In history this place was nearly everytime taken by gold silver, alcohol and tobacco (if have also some hundred bottles of alc in stock to barter with).

Yes, Sir, you're right in the very moment of a desaster nobody cares about gold (and paper money) the people are crying for food at first.

But after a certain time (some weeks or months) when the shock was overcome and the life begins again there will be neccessity of a currency (could be theoretical everything but in history it was often gold and silver).

I think if you keep you paper money you will loose all - with gold and silver (and perhaps certain stocks) there is a chance that you save something.

Or give me a better trick to save my wealth and to have something to barter with, Brian ?!

Don't tell us like a gooder theories or somewhat religous proposals what we shouldn't do or how to understand the present system - give us practical advices in the form

- I think you should buy/do .. - instead.

Onc' Scrooge


brian Thiesen
20 Feb 11, 00:09
Onc scrooge, practical advice

Again i will state, for what i will doubt is the last time, i dont prefer paper over gold or silver or food or whatever. I dont beleive in a fiat system run by bankers. I would accept a fiat system run by "the people" (as we would call it i guess)

Again if %90 of gold is held by banks and bankers this will NOT be a "liquid" currency at all, nor silver, nor anything held in extremely high numbers by a bank.

There a solutions everywhere, i get the comment all the time "food rots" precisely this gives it even more value in "the times the gold bugs call for"

There are hundreds of ways to preserve grow etc. food, I never felt this the place for it... that is what google etc. is for. or further talking to grandparents, maybe visiting an old age home and finding out "what really happened and what was really important during war or X crisis"

What I do know is that many believe gold will do so many things that it simply will not do. Is it better than paper? sure it could be. Does it have to be the only thing to "replace paper" when the currency dies (like it was supposed to for a decade now and has also lost %95 of its purchasing power already since inception)

If gold is abundant after that and i have food, i will trade for gold THIS WILL BE A GUARANTEE TO BE ABLE TO HAPPEN, the other way around, not guaranteed. Would you rather do the "safe" thing during a crisis, avoid stress etc. Or think some gold guru and his bars are going to save your bacon?

We must look at how much of gold and silver WE THE PEOPLE will have access to vs food and other things. Why does no one mention copper ever? whats wrong with that? plenty of it around, can be made into anything, is %100 pure etc.

Focus remains on gold and gold only BUY BUY BUY. My cow will get me plenty of gold, in fact as long as grass grows i am all set... what will gold do for anyone?

Instead of looking at whether i beleive in fiat (which yes I would if it was peoples fiat) but i dont agree with anything the bankers can have control of, this represents no gain for society. This is the point all you guys continually miss while trying to bash me about whether i like fiat.

Preparations would depend on so many things. People just need to open their eyes and take off the gold goggles for 5 seconds.

I find it strange that all people would care about in time of struggle is how rich they will get. Wonder if anyone in pakistan, australia, egypt etc. etc. or during katrina, etc. were thinking that.

If the whole thing breaks down this will be a long drawn out version of that.

My judgement is it seems you are well prepared and people would do well to do what you have done, as well as as i have always said have some gold or silver, just dont think it will save your A$$ and make you handsome, rich and all the rest people think this metal will do.

I hope this makes it clear, i doubt it will, there will always be someone who dumped their money into a flat screen and 40 eagles that will make some nonsensical comment... thats fine.

I'll see you I'll be the one with gold, a cow, a means to survive etc, you'll be the one (not you onc scrooge) looking for food water etc.


Onc' Scrooge
20 Feb 11, 09:32
I have found NEVER NEVER LAND!

Dear Brian,

Let me give you 2 comments to you last statement:

1. If in a coming crisis PM's would be useful or not we don't know it - this will we decided by the type of crisis which will come!

Types of crisis could be (there may be others) :

a) Type of 197x/198x worldwide crisis - heavy inflation crisis without general society crisis

PM's could realize heavy gains (nominal and also in purchasing power) until system stabilizes or go over into type c .

But perhaps one can realize a heavy gain !?

b) Type of 1929-39 worldwide crisis - heavy deflation crisis without general society crisis

PM will rest more or less stable in purchasing power perhaps not in nominal value ?

PM's will help you to survive.

c) Type of 1918-23 Weimar crisis - hyperinflation in one country without general society crisis

Without agriculteral production resources or/and PM or other tangibles (in 1923 $, £, NFl or CHF..) ones life will get very hard - PM or PM-covered money let you live like a king and give you possibity of "very good deals"!

Think of Ernest Hemminway's vacancies in summer of 1922 in the French town of Strassbourg going over the border into the German town of Kehl:

"...we changed some French money in the railway station at Kehl. For 10 francs I received 670 marks. Ten francs amounted to about 90 cents in Canadian money. That 90 cents lasted Mrs Hemingway and me for a day of heavy spending and at the end of the day we had 120 marks left! ...the mark at 800 to the dollar, or 8 to the cent, a pound of coffee could be had for 34 marks. Beer was 10 marks a stein, or one cent and a quarter. Kehl's best hotel served a five-course meal for 150 marks, or 15 cents.... This miracle of exchange makes a swinish spectacle where the youth of the town of Strasbourg crowd into the German pastry shop to eat themselves sick, and gorge on fluffy, cream-filled slices of German cake at 5 marks the slice...."

THE PROBLEM WAS THAT A GERMAN WORKER EARNS 30 MARKS A DAY, HE WAS IN HELL -

BUT THERE IT IS THE DREAMLAND - THE NEVER NEVER LAND OF ALL THE GOLD BUGS - IT SEEMS IT EXISTS IN CERTAIN CONSTELLATIONS.

d) might be also that's a chain of types of crisis is comming in future - example b-a-c - then you must have a lot of PM to stand this ? Or it happens something else like stagflation and so on...

BUT !!!! :

But if there is also pepper in the soup - means PM confiscation, collapsing gouvernments, great civil unrest, revolution, war, breaking production chains etc.. then PM's wouldn't be enough.

Then you're right with you observation - everybody should have food stocks or at best agriculteral production resources and all the things I talked about (and even more)!

2. YOUR DREAM ?

You want to have a new system without the banksters. And the money is created by the people or the gouvernment (like Lincoln's greenbacks ?).

I agree with you that could be a nice system. Money (with or without PM) made by the people!

But you should explain more how to get there ..

Give us advices or ideas what to do globally?

How would you like to do coordination of something like this worldwide?

How will you chase the banksters out of their worldwide power?

All this questions remain with liquid answers in the moment!

What do you think of credit and interest ?

I think that interest makes a monetary system incertain. BUT CREDIT WITHOUT INTEREST ??

One remark: I don't think that PM's are in 90% possession of the banksters it would be something like 30 to 40% in reality.

Greetings

Onc' Scrooge


Shelby Moore
20 Feb 11, 10:03
$1 million of food

Brian,

What would I do with 2 million lbs of beans in times of crisis? If there was really a crisis that caused food production to shut down, then many forms of transportation and distribution would also shutdown. My 2 million lbs of beans (or whatever mix of food stuffs) would be illiquid.

Ditto farm land, illiquid.

Yes enough unperishable food for 6months is not horrible idea. I have 500 lbs of beans stored, etc.. But that hardly helps me with the other $999,500.

Becoming a farmer is extremely inefficient. It is a waste of precious years, when I could instead be developing a new computer language, and potentially raking in another few $million. Look at Google Android sales growing 800% per year compounded since launched in 2009. In 2 years that has been 6400% sales growth to now the #1 market share smartphones in the 100s of millions of unit sales per year.

Besides there isn't going to be any shortage of food. There is going to be plenty of food, but most people won't have any money to buy it, because they didn't buy gold & silver.

All these Mathusians are going to be sitting in their bunker or farm waiting for the attack that never comes, and instead they will be watching gold go to $5000 and silver to $500 by about 2021 or so.

Life does not reward people who waste their talents or waste capital on things that don't help society become more productive. The most efficient thing to do now is to work hard in your area of talent, knowing full well the huge opportunities as 6 billion people are joining to the modern world. And taking your excess profits and buying gold and especially silver, in order to halt Bennie before he burns down all the Jets.

Lets sing a toast to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjUk3Bp16zs

P.S. I agree that money is not the answer to salvation. The globalists have too much of the gold, it won't hurt for us to call it back it in (as they did to us in 1934).

Cheers.


g kaiser
20 Feb 11, 11:30
gold

I think this debate is coming off the track. Nobody is arguing that gold is better than food.

We are talking gold vs. paper money, nothing more nothing less.

The simple fact that you have an idiot in America printing money non stop should give you a couple of clues.

The day you have someone doing that to gold, I will agree that gold will become useless, but until then, there is no alternative, not even close!


brian Thiesen
22 Feb 11, 01:33
Gold Lesse

1.) show me anyone through the entire course of human history who has lost more than there investment on an option

2.) tell me how real money is something you cannot use in %99 of all stores (let me guess because shelby calls it real money it is)??

3.Tell the world why you take what people say and twist it into anything but what they actually said

4.)Who ever said there Would be an "attack" does anyone think the bankers are that dumb to "attack" and destroy what they own (ie nuclear war)

5.) Why would the bankers get rid of "currencies" when they make massive profits all the way to... themselves every single day. $ 2.5 trillion traded daily

(do you really believe they will delete this tool from their repetoir because they "didnt see gold rise coming" And in the event gold goes up do you really beleive they will not profit handsomely?

6.) do you think no matter what goes on they will be "caught off guard"

7.) gold goes to 10 million an ounce, do you really beleive this will do anything? What will you buy? the world? People? Slaves? Peasants? All the Dumb people? YOU SOUND LIKE A BANKER (with less money)

8.) who said to buy 2 million of beans?

9.) who actually said do something besides believe gold is god? (like you and the rest of the cronies) Which is like 1 million people out of 6 billion... nice odds huh?

10.) How do you profit on a trade without selling it? How do you expect anyone to believe you have a clue when you say you "made money" (paper money... gold is priced in dollars) when you never sold YOUR RETURN IS %00

11.) Life does not reward those who sit around believing gold is god or silver

12.) life does reward those who believe copper, dog hair, cardboard could all perform the same function as what you guys all believe gold can. It can, but is not the only, it is not the "requirement to kick out the man" anything can be

How about time banks? how about bartering?.... fools

13.) life does not reward people who are blinded into believing that if there is some catastrophe that the first thing someone should think of is how they will profit. Or the first thing people will want is gold. Go to haiti right now see the bustling gold trade, go to pakistan witness the bustling gold trade.

14.) life does not reward the %1 who will have gold or silver because the bankers have the rest, life in this case if it is worth so much.... will reward the mobs... good luck. Life will reward those who have what the other %90 believe as money... real money.

15.) life will reward those who are smart enough to prepare in multiple ways not just with gold and of course with some gold or silver... as i have said all along, not to be your god, but a tool, but no the only tool in your shed, however the high probability is it will be useless, like in Katrina etc. or any other time of need or disaster.... it is the ABSOLUTE LAST THING ON ANYONE's MIND

16.) without food people die, period, food rots, good it will be more valuable than something that lasts forever, a world where gold is valued by X market at 500000000 is not a world that i will be caring about gold in.

17.) perusing the babylonian woe you will see gold and silver WERE THE FIRST TOOLS OF CONTROL FOR THE MONEY MEN, they are masters of it and us, until this changes it matters not, as i have repeated 100 times

18.) no one is saying FIAT is better, they are saying that it doesnt matter, as long as the people beleive it IS MONEY, as long as the bankers control the expansion and contraction of it. (like they did in BABYLONIAN TIMES) it matters not what is currency


Shelby Moore
23 Feb 11, 00:00
gold vs. other options

Hi Brian,

Here are some replies to your questions:

1) Anyone who buys on margin can lose several times their investment. Additionally, since most people are in net debt, they are effectively on margin, even if not in a margin brokerage account.

2) I do not need to use it in a store, I can sell it for fiat. Or even lease it for rents that disguise an interest bearing return for tax purposes. The end game is where the globalists back the new regional currencies with gold, and pay very high interest rates to suck all the gold back into the banking system, and gold will be convertible at the banks. There is even a video at the Fed showing this coming future. The globalists have started hinting at this. One of their code-of-ethics is they must warn you, before they screw you.

3) People comment because they want to distill truth.

4) Bunker mentality applies generally to all forms of preparing for outcomes that are paranoid, not necessary a nuclear attack, but the general concept of not respecting the perpetual march of the maximum division-of-labor trend.

5) Yes the globalists will profit handsomely on the rise of the gold price as they purchased back at $200s, and will sell for the new bonds that will pay 20+% interest in coming regional currencies. Who said bankers will get rid of currencies? Not me. I said the end game by around 2024 or before, is to destroy the national currencies and replace them with regional currencies and regional central banks, so that the globalists have more control and we can less affect them locally. But to get this, they have to sacrifice something temporarily. They will temporarily let gold come back as money, but not as a currency, only as a store-of-value and convertible at banks. This will enable them to raise interest rate super high, and then they bring the entire world (including developing world) into their next big bond bond bubble as they then slowly fractionally debase the gold backing while no one is paying attention. Then the death of the regional currencies (like today's crisis but some decades from now), will be the final end game leading to a one world currency and end times. This has all been known and planned for 2000 years. Do you want me to show you the public plans written about 100 years ago?

6) Agreed, they are monitoring everything.

7) Correct money can not buy salvation. Jesus said so in Matthew 19, that the only way to perfection is to give it all away and walk from this life of death, to the life of life. You are getting into the philosophical. Maybe we should stay on the financial.

8) My point is I have to buy something. I can't buy $1 million of food. What do you suggest I buy other than gold and silver? Land is also illiquid. Stocks (and bonds) are losing value relative to gold and silver since 2001 and 2004 respectively. I don't think you can find anything but gold and silver. Eventually everyone will figure this out, and I want to be early.

9) Ah 1% now, but by the end game, at least 10%, as was the case in 1980. All mass psychology phenomenons have this pattern, and it is known as the exponential function. The early adopters profit the most. The globalists were the earliest as they purchased around $200s as they told the central banks to sell to them (such as Gordon Brown who sold away most of UK's gold). The central banks have stopped selling now.

10) Since gold can always be converted to fiat, then I can profit on silver by taking profits in gold. As for the time when real interest rates go skyhigh and gold and silver fall in price (the new regional currencies coming), then I can loan my silver and gold at 0% interest rate, and watch my ounces increase as fast as the fiat interest rate. Thus I capture all the gain (the loss in the price of silver) in terms of increased ounces, while my borrower pays a 0% interest rate, while everyone else pays 20+%. I detailed the math on this at the "How will we trade..." thread in Precious Metals forum (goldwetrust.up-with.com).

11) Not sure what you mean here, but life does not reward burying money in any form. I am eager to lease mine (a form of investing in others' businesses), or invest it directly in their businesses as soon as possible.

12) Nothing on earth has a high above ground inventory relative to industrial demand, except gold. Second is silver. Copper and everything else isn't even close. Copper has only 6 month inventory above ground. This means it can never be a store-of-value, because it is primarily consumed and thus has no store-of-liquidity and thus is a very unstable value that is not orthogonal to economic conditions. You can Wikipedia "orthogonal", it is a critical mathematical concept.

13) The idea of profiting on catastrophe is that you profit because you help make it less of catastrophe by providing some needed function, such as storing up real capital in the form of real money, and only gold (and silver) qualifies because of #12 above.

14) The globalists want you to believe that paper is money. It is only an illusion. Paper money has lost 95+% of its value since 1900. One ounce of gold can still buy a fine man's suit, just as it could in 1900.

15) Agreed gold and silver are only tools, but when you have $1 million and no other suitable investment options, then they become your main tool at certain junctures.

16) Much better people will buy gold and silver than hoarding commodities. The sooner we kill the corruption of the central banks printing paper money like crazy, the less damage will be done to the world's poor. The more we delay, the worse it is going to be for everyone.

17) Money is the root of all evil, whether it is paper or gold or whatever. That is just nature. Nevertheless still doesn't tell me what to do with my $1 million?

18) It matters. If you put $1 million in paper in 1900, you would have less than $50,000 now in purchasing power parity. If you put it in gold, you would still have the same $1 million in purchasing power.

Cheers.


Onc' Scrooge
23 Feb 11, 12:00
NO BANK - NO CRY !

Hi together,

SHELBY,

I don't understand your answer to point 5).

When the money system comes down - in a hyperinflation or in a big bank bang - and existing fiat money will be

worth nothing anymore who would be so stupid to give his gold (or also his silver..) away for $200 in old fiat

worth 0 or $200 in new fiat worth temporaly something ?

Do you really think that shocked people (sheeples) who lost nearly all with old fiat and saved with gold and

silver a little bit will accept lousy $200 in new fiat with the promise to pay %20 interest in fiat?!?

I think after a chrash people won't trust in fiat, banks and FED's for a long time (1-2 generations) anymore.

And if the banks pretend that the new currency is gold backed (with their gold or your gold ?)

- why will they give %20 interest - after Bernie Madow everybody knows that %20 interest is Ponzi ?

- and why do they want to have your gold when they pretend that the currency is alread gold-backed by bank gold ?

Do you really think that sheeples never awake and get wolves one time ?

Seems to be that you are a trader who wants to have profit in any possible way and not security.

Seems also to be that you think in the categories of our (old) system not having enough phantasie that a new

system could by upside down and anywhere around.

You can promise me %10000 interest a day I won't sell anything or only what I need to live for the next week or

month if necessary.

When the system comes down for example like this:

1. Some big banks fail in order to a bond chrash

2 EZB/FED will bail out again with mountains of money

2. In the EU EMU (Euro) will explose (if it is not exploded even before).

3. In the EU the Euro will be worth less and less very quickly (Weimar Syndrome)

4. Interest rates in Euro will skyrock to %1000+++

5. Someone (private) who cannot pay his debt or the skyrocked interests will be in default means 90% of all

homeowners, nearly every enterprises, nearly everybody ..

6. The banks will find themselves with a mass of defaulted clients, not sellable houses, cars .... and no clients

in the lending business - nobody who will take a credit at %10000.

7. The rest of the bank goes broken

8. Somewhere between point 2 to 7 the gouvernments will begin to make currency reformations (new Mark, new Franc

...) - but it could also be that there is no gouvernment anymore and a real chaos ?

If the new curreny is backed by gold or fiat again - who knows ?

But it is certain that the (in your words) already "regional" currency called Euro will split into new national currencies again.

With the experience of the Euro we do have now, nobody will accept a centralized currency again at least not in

Europe.

I'm certain that if you hyperinflate (or reform to 0-Value) all the fiat assets the people have (money, saving

accounts, life assurances, pensions fonds etc.) there will be revolution in some(all) states (I am quiet certain

that the French and the Germans (these even before !) and specially the Greeks will do so and shoot the EU, her

politiciens, bankers and the whole system to the moon - and what comes afterwards ? surely not the globalists of

JPM - could be even the communists afterwards!!)

Your theory of globalists will not happen - to me it seems to go in the inverse direction.

--------

BRIAN,

perhaps you think that I am crazy but :

- I never had a credit card,

- I even never had a credit or mortage or whatever debt,

- I never bought a stock

- I never had a bond

- I never placed money to have interests

- I have no capital in assurances

- I have bank accounts only to pay those who don't accept payment in cash or tangible or receive payments.

- The only service banks give to me is this facility of payment.

( and I have no mobile phone !! )

Means - I'M THE FIRST IN DEVELOPPED EUROPE WHO DON'T NEED BANKS (perhaps I'm a bank for my own) !!

I always held nearly all my wealth in tangibles - my wealth is coming from work (informatics) and business in my

tangibles. If the system breaks - it won't hurt me (only thing to fear is gouvernmental robbery).

BRIAN,

you like to have a new system without Banksters:

If all people do like me there weren't any banks anymore (they won't be neccesary)!

If nobody takes a credit or a mortgage or there is no interest on deposits anymore all banks would be dead.

Is this not the way to kill them ?

Write something about that.

PS: NO BANK - NO CRY (in allusion to NO WOMAN - NO CRY)

-------

SHELBY,

I'm not a Methusian and I'm not a farmer - I only have an old farmhouse with stables and barns and garden and land

and forest.

And I have a wife you likes working in a garden and with animals - all her family has always had horses and little

animals just for fun.

My land I lean to a farmer year by year he works on it - the forest is treated by some friends of mine who work in

the forest and take a part of the wood for her work - with the other part I heat my house.

My wife like to make in her garden expiriences to grow all neccessary plants (in the moment in little portions).

But if a big crisis comes we can very quick begin with bigger plantations and more animals, we have the resources

the knowledge and friends to help us.

IT'S JUST AN ASSURANCE !!

Life is not only the accumulation of profits and there aren't lost years when you do what you like and what you

think!!!

Greetings

Onc' Scrooge


Onc' Scrooge
24 Feb 11, 14:46
Why banksters forever?

SHELBY,

that's what I say, No Credit - No Problem.

I know that %90 are debtors in the present in any way.

But must this situation last forever?

Why do you think that people stay with their debts after a coming big chrash and will accept to be slaves after having lost all their savings in hyperinflation - what do they have to loose except their lives ???

Look at Tunesia, Egypt, Lybia - do you think after that revolution the people have their old debts again?

And if they don't use the banks anymore the banks would survive ?

To whom the banks will pay %20 interest - to THEMSELVES on what capital ?

Who will create the money after the chrash - do you really think that monopoly is held again by the banksters - the same banksters which are already identified by everybody to be the hyper-guilty in our crisis of 2008 to now - why people should accept this - who will give them the right to continue after this debacle caused by them ?

Who will give the money to lent to the banks after a chrash - do you really think the system is self-sufficiant forever without any legal validation - why should people who lost all give their new savings again to the banks ?

It's just one step do - don't accept the bank money anymore - accept the money of your neighbour, your family, your clan, your friends in whatever currency you like gold, silver, copper, working hours, wood, cows... but not the money of the banks!

We discuss in my country (not me but high-placed politicians and experts to reform the system) openly in the moment to return to state-created-money (with no payment of interest from the gouvernment to the banks - it's the gouvernment which creates the money without paying interest)

Do you think that it's impossible?

Here the (little) bank clerks begin to deny their profession - if they tell the people what they work they hear nothing else than complaints like "you are the mob", *you are gangsters", "be ashamed".... even if these little clerks are completely innocent. A lot of them are in consultation of phychologists or change profession!!

And it's only the beginning of the mess - the evil will come in future - there are people (not me) choosing already the trees for some persons !!

And what do you think of people like me living apart the banking system as much as possible - what will come for us in your vision?

Do you really think that banks would control the countries and the people forever - what's about democracy why should we vote if it's like this ?

You give the best argumentation for total revolution as the French have done in 1789 (my wife is French and sometimes I feel her heat of revolutionary feeling) - all bankster are good for the guillotine and the class of politicians with them - caution, caution not all the nations are sheeples and I am sure if the bankster try to do what you think they will be without their head in some countries in short time!

Cheers

Onc' Scrooge


brian Thiesen
24 Feb 11, 15:21
No slaves, no masters... that simple

I dont have credit card, cell phone, I dont even carry a wallet, I have my drivers license... thats it. I have had credit etc. before but no more. Grow my own food as best I can, help people, preserve food, learn new techiniques, gain knowledge etc. I don't think you are crazy and In fact it is usually the crazies who soon prove sane. When you are 1 step ahead you are a genius when you are 2 steps ahead you are a crackpot.

I see what you say that if fiat collapses "globally" like the gold bugs say it will for the last 5 decades, then who is going to trust whatever pricing mechanism interest etc. anyone comes up with. Hence who will believe the "game" hence gold will have no value except the value the next man thinks it does... that is what money is Are we getting warmer yet.

Shelby, You dont need to get rid of fiat to get rid of bankers, you need to get rid of idiocy. As I have said many times it matters not if it is paper gold peanuts apple sauce if the bankers control it, it is in a sense fiat. It can be manipulated any way they want just like you are.

Like when gold goes up you guys all say "stupid bankers losing control cant manipulate gold" When gold goes down 20 cents "THE BANKERS ARE MANIPULATING EVERYTHING"

As i have you will realize gold and silver were the first things manipulated... No not just back to when paper was made as "money" but even further, when they would create inflation and deflation with gold and silver... so as said gold does not matter, it is not the solution and infact due to the fact of its scarceness could be a valuable tool for the bankers as it was in the past.

The solution to get rid of masters is to not be slaves fiat, gold, silver, nails, cardboard... doesnt matter. Look at the control mechanisms, see what offers them control of you and dont do it... that seems logical doesnt it

Onc, If you have a birth certificate, social insurance number things of this nature you are (or the corporation that is now the representative of you) is owned by the banks.

We can yap forever about which is the most valuable asset, clearly the bankers know...It is humans, their labour and time. what trade has lasted throughout the centuries and what unit has always been around forever? Humans and slave labour.

So unlawful slavery was banned and we all cheered and clapped, but lawful slavery was not, and when you get those docs you (or your parents upon registry of birth) become/are made a slave

This is back to phoenecian/babylonian banking laws/systems... so yes people you have to go back further than bretton woods to find out what is really happening.

Realize %100 of the people are slaves, their bond is issued upon registering to the queen (the bankers) so sorry shelby you are (as usual) wrong on this one too! The strawman pays taxes, traffic fines etc. You do not exist anymore, they have created a separate entity that is you.

Notice all your id's bank cards credit cards etc. are all in capital letters? You will believe this is for "legibility" etc. This means you are a "person" not a "human" in this case a "person" according to "law" is a corporation.

Your bond (like a normal bond) is bought and sold and traded by banks, this had to happen when the banks via war in the earlier times (various times for each country... canada was 1933) bankrupted all countries by putting them to war, then said "HTF are you going to pay us pal" and the countries replied " We will pay you with the future labours of our people" (time and labour, resources) Now open your eyes and see, every second a man works, taxed. all resources used taxed. When debt gets to big via to high taxes (now you see the rolling form one country to the next greece, portugal, ireland, now libya's etc.) in a different light, they are sold to private interests, taken from the people and taxed. Until now end. When there are to many slaves to manage, war.

Conveniently the slaves will fight these wars and in debt their fellow country man and world citizens in the name of "Freedom" It would be a comedy except for the fact it is so destructive.

So still gold is not needed to make change, its called barter, time banks, volunteering, helping your fellow person.... notice these are all things banks do not do? So it must mean these are against their best interest. Which must mean they are in the best interest of mankind.

You are bought and sold whether you have a pile of gold or not. Whether you like paper or not. The paper is not the problem it is the people who perpetuate its use (all of us) and those who issue it (the bankers) and those who allow it (us) So wake up guys and look further than your "vault" the vault you need to look in is in your head, and in your neighbours head.


Shelby Moore
25 Feb 11, 15:40
romanticism

Brian wrote:

"barter, time banks, volunteering, helping your fellow person"

Admirable and romantic ideas.

The reality is likely to be a quite bit more focused on looting, stealing, drug abuse, more debt, sucking the tit of socialism, "what is yours, is mine", protests, idealism turned into eugenics, etc..

Any way, you still didn't answer my question, in which asset class to best invest $1 million at this time?

I say it is gold&silver. You say? Food? Philanthropy?


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