Best of the Week
Most Popular
1. Will Iran Kill the PetroDollar? - Marin Katusa
2. Tail Events, Isolation, New Normal Of Hyper Monetary Inflation - Jim_Willie_CB
3. Kodak's Former Moment, A Lesson for You, Me and America - Gary_North
4.The Five Stages of Collapse and the Coming Paradigm Shift in Silver - Steve_St_Angelo
5. UK Recession 2012 Certain as Bank of England Prepares to Ramp Up Money Printing Presses - Nadeem_Walayat
6. HMRC Extends Tax Deadline by 2Days for Self Assessment Online Filing - Nadeem_Walayat
7. Gold GLD ETF Investors Mass Exodus - Zeal_LLC
8. Credit Crisis Perfect Storm, Robert Prechter Discusses What's Backing Your Dollars - Robert Prechter
9. Best Cash ISA 2012 to Reduce Stealth Inflation Theft of Value of Savings - Nadeem_Walayat
10.Financial Markets 2012, When Leverage Fails - Ty_Andros
Last 5 Days Analysis
Learn How to Apply Fibonacci Retracements to Your Stock Index Trading - 8th Feb 12
Do Low Interest Rates Power Stock Markets Higher? - 8th Feb 12
SILVER: The Illegitimate Child Of The Commodities Family - 8th Feb 12
A New Reason Gold Stocks Will Soar - 8th Feb 12
The Deception of 0% Interest Rates, High Costs and Capital Destruction - 8th Feb 12
Bring Down the New World Order with Free Market Education - 8th Feb 12
Gold Increases In Value During Inflation or Deflation Scenarios - 8th Feb 12
Gold Holds Steady as U.S. Dollar Hits 2-Month Low - 8th Feb 12
Markets Risk Train Chugs Along, Overbought Does Not Mean a Correction is Coming - 8th Feb 12
Banking, U.S. Housing Market and Mortgages - 8th Feb 12
Has Zero Interest Rate Policy Held Back Economic Recovery? - 8th Feb 12
Graphite and Rare Earth Metals for the 21st Century - 8th Feb 12
Gold Odysseus Journey Continues! - 8th Feb 12
The Fed Resumes Printing Money to Monetize U.S. Government Debt - 7th Feb 12
Timing the Market: Predicting When the FED Will Act Next (Feb 12) - 7th Feb 12
U.S. War With Iran? - 7th Feb 12
Abandoning the U.S. Dollar for Gold - 7th Feb 12
Financial Crisis American Gridlock, Why The “Left” And The “Right” Are Both Wrong - 7th Feb 12
The Fed is Engineering Barack Obama’s Re-Election Campaign - 7th Feb 12
Finding Fundamentals Key to Gold Stocks Investing - 7th Feb 12
US Debt Will Explode Without Changes - 7th Feb 12
Gold Compared to Past Bubbles - 7th Feb 12
Illusion Of Economic Recovery – Feelings & Facts - 7th Feb 12
In the Gold Bullring - 7th Feb 12
This Precious Metal Could Rise 125% Over the Next 10 Months - 6th Feb 12
Washington Heading for War on Syria - 6th Feb 12
Gold "Rollercoaster" Heads Yet Lower as Greece Hits "Crunch Time for Bankruptcy" - 6th Feb 12
Did Friday's Gold Price Action Signal a Stock Market Top? - 6th Feb 12
Monday Financial Markets Madness – What’s This Greece Thing? - 6th Feb 12
Stock Market Investors Dangerous Times Ahead, Will Impact Gold - 6th Feb 12
Gold, Stocks and Euro Fall As Possible Greek Debt Default Looms - 6th Feb 12
Bond Investors Pour into Emerging Market Debt in Hunt for Higher Yields - 6th Feb 12
New Spy Technology Could Be Worth Billions - 6th Feb 12
U.S. Fraudulent Election Year Unemployment Data, Lies, Lies, More and Bigger Lies - 6th Feb 12
Double Liability for Bank Shareholders, Officers and Directors - 6th Feb 12
Stock Market Next Short-term Top in Sight - 6th Feb 12
U.S. Home Foreclosures and Shadow Banking: Why All the "Robo-signing"? - 5th Feb 12
Look at What 'Worked' in the Great Depression - 5th Feb 12
Putting Good U.S. Employment Numbers in Perspective, College Education Isn’t Enough - 5th Feb 12
Stock Market Weekend Update - 5th Feb 12
The Doomsday Machine - 4th Feb 12
Are US Treasury Bond Markets a Sell? - 4th Feb 12
Obama’s Refinancing Swindle, Banks Want to Dump Millions of Risky Mortgages Onto FHA - 4th Feb 12
The Euro Zone and the Crisis of Sovereign Debt - 4th Feb 12
Is the U.S. 'Decoupling' From the European Debt Crisis? - 4th Feb 12
The Crucial Pillar of the New World Order - 4th Feb 12
Gold Junior Mining Stocks Poised to Rebound - 4th Feb 12
U.S. January Employment Situation Shows Widespread Improvement, but Short of Full Employment Mandate - 4th Feb 12
U.S. Non Farm Payrolls Interesting Market Divergences - 4th Feb 12
Gold and Silver Mining Stocks Tops Might Be Just Around the Corner - 4th Feb 12
Critical Materials for Critical Technologies - 3rd Feb 12
Junior Gold Mining Stock - 3rd Feb 12
SOPA, PIPA, The State of US Surveillance - 3rd Feb 12
Essential Investor Preparations for The Big Crisis - 3rd Feb 12
U.S. Jobs, El-Erian U.S. Structural Issues Aren't Being Dealt With - 3rd Feb 12
What Every U.S. Investor Should Know About Inflation - 3rd Feb 12
U.S. Mint Gold Coin Sales Return to Fundamental Driven Demand - 3rd Feb 12
Gold Bull Market Bigger than Ever - 3rd Feb 12
Banking Crisis 2012 "Robo-Signing" of Foreclosure Affidavits Just Tip of Iceberg - 3rd Feb 12
Stock and Financial Markets Crash is Coming, Key Signs of Reversal - 3rd Feb 12
Real U.S. Economic Picture: "There is No Recovery" - 3rd Feb 12
Poland Gives Green Light to Massive Natural Gas Fracking Efforts - 3rd Feb 12
Where to Invest 2012 and What to Avoid - 2nd Feb 12
Liquid Natural Gas Stocks Are Set to Take Off - 2nd Feb 12
Godzilla Will Come Out of Tokyo Bay Before Japan Economy and Stock Market Rebounds - 2nd Feb 12
Gold Challenges Resistance at $1,750/oz – Technicals and Fundamentals Remain Very Positive - 2nd Feb 12
German Central Bailing Out Europe - 2nd Feb 12
In the Wake of Davos: "Strong Economic Medicine" for the European Union - 2nd Feb 12
The American Economy is "Dead": The Illusion of Economic Recovery - 2nd Feb 12
Irish People Bailout of Bond Holders, Vincent Browne v The European Central Bank Video - 2nd Feb 12
How Far Will Debt Deleveraging Go? How Much LSD Can an Elephant Take? - 2nd Feb 12
Great Deals on Gold and Silver 2012 - 2nd Feb 12

Free Instant Analysis

Free Instant Technical Analysis


Market Oracle FREE Newsletter

How You Can Identify Stock Market Turning Points Using Fibonacci

A Tale of Two Economic Depressions

Economics / Economic Depression Jun 23, 2009 - 01:04 AM

By: John_Mauldin

Economics

Diamond Rated - Best Financial Markets Analysis ArticleThis week's Outside the box looks at some very interesting research done by two economic historians, Barry Eichengreen of the University of California at Berkeley and Kevin O'Rourke of Trinity College, Dublin They give us comparisons between the Great Depression and today's downturn. They continue to update their data from time to time, the link to their work is at http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421. I have not previously heard of www.voxeu.org, but it is a collection of the work of well regarded international economists that seems quite interesting for those who enjoy readings in the dismal science.


This week's OTB will print long, but it is primarily charts. Please note that I have re-arranged some of the new charts to cut down on space because of some duplications. Word count is not all that much and it reads well. I will be referring to their work in future letters as well. Have a great week!

John Mauldin, Editor Outside the Box

A Tale of Two Depressions

By Barry Eichengreen and Kevin O'Rourke

New findings:

  • World industrial production continues to track closely the 1930s fall, with no clear signs of 'green shoots'.
  • World stock markets have rebounded a bit since March, and world trade has stabilized, but these are still following paths far below the ones they followed in the Great Depression.
  • There are new charts for individual nations' industrial output. The big-4 EU nations divide north-south; today's German and British industrial output are closely tracking their rate of fall in the 1930s, while Italy and France are doing much worse.
  • The North Americans (US & Canada) continue to see their industrial output fall approximately in line with what happened in the 1929 crisis, with no clear signs of a turn around.
  • Japan's industrial output in February was 25 percentage points lower than at the equivalent stage in the Great Depression. There was however a sharp rebound in March.

The parallels between the Great Depression of the 1930s and our current Great Recession have been widely remarked upon. Paul Krugman has compared the fall in US industrial production from its mid-1929 and late-2007 peaks, showing that it has been milder this time. On this basis he refers to the current situation, with characteristic black humour, as only "half a Great Depression." The "Four Bad Bears" graph comparing the Dow in 1929-30 and S&P 500 in 2008-9 has similarly had wide circulation (Short 2009). It shows the US stock market since late 2007 falling just about as fast as in 1929-30.

Comparing the Great Depression to now for the world, not just the US

This and most other commentary contrasting the two episodes compares America then and now. This, however, is a misleading picture. The Great Depression was a global phenomenon. Even if it originated, in some sense, in the US, it was transmitted internationally by trade flows, capital flows and commodity prices. That said, different countries were affected differently. The US is not representative of their experiences.

Our Great Recession is every bit as global, earlier hopes for decoupling in Asia and Europe notwithstanding. Increasingly there is awareness that events have taken an even uglier turn outside the US, with even larger falls in manufacturing production, exports and equity prices.

In fact, when we look globally, as in Figure 1, the decline in industrial production in the last nine months has been at least as severe as in the nine months following the 1929 peak. (All graphs in this column track behaviour after the peaks in world industrial production, which occurred in June 1929 and April 2008.) Here, then, is a first illustration of how the global picture provides a very different and, indeed, more disturbing perspective than the US case considered by Krugman, which as noted earlier shows a smaller decline in manufacturing production now than then.

Updated Figure 1. World Industrial Output, Now vs Then (updated)

Source: Eichengreen and O'Rourke (2009) and IMF.

Similarly, while the fall in US stock market has tracked 1929, global stock markets are falling even faster now than in the Great Depression (Figure 2). Again this is contrary to the impression left by those who, basing their comparison on the US market alone, suggest that the current crash is no more serious than that of 1929-30.

Updated Figure 2. World Stock Markets, Now vs Then (updated)

Another area where we are "surpassing" our forbearers is in destroying trade. World trade is falling much faster now than in 1929-30 (Figure 3). This is highly alarming given the prominence attached in the historical literature to trade destruction as a factor compounding the Great Depression.

Updated Figure 3. The Volume of World Trade, Now vs Then (updated)

Sources: League of Nations Monthly Bulletin of Statistics, http://www.cpb.nl/eng/research/sector2/data/trademonitor.html

It's a Depression alright

To sum up, globally we are tracking or doing even worse than the Great Depression, whether the metric is industrial production, exports or equity valuations. Focusing on the US causes one to minimise this alarming fact. The "Great Recession" label may turn out to be too optimistic. This is a Depression-sized event.

That said, we are only one year into the current crisis, whereas after 1929 the world economy continued to shrink for three successive years. What matters now is that policy makers arrest the decline. We therefore turn to the policy response.

Policy responses: Then and now

Figure 4 shows a GDP-weighted average of central bank discount rates for 7 countries. As can be seen, in both crises there was a lag of five or six months before discount rates responded to the passing of the peak, although in the present crisis rates have been cut more rapidly and from a lower level. There is more at work here than simply the difference between George Harrison and Ben Bernanke. The central bank response has differed globally.

Updated Figure 4. Central Bank Discount Rates, Now vs Then (7 country average)

Source: Bernanke and Mihov (2000); Bank of England, ECB, Bank of Japan, St. Louis Fed, National Bank of Poland, Sveriges Riksbank.

Figure 5 shows money supply for a GDP-weighted average of 19 countries accounting for more than half of world GDP in 2004. Clearly, monetary expansion was more rapid in the run-up to the 2008 crisis than during 1925-29, which is a reminder that the stage-setting events were not the same in the two cases. Moreover, the global money supply continued to grow rapidly in 2008, unlike in 1929 when it levelled off and then underwent a catastrophic decline.

Figure 5. Money Supplies, 19 Countries, Now vs Then

Source: Bordo et al. (2001), IMF International Financial Statistics, OECD Monthly Economic Indicators.

Figure 6 is the analogous picture for fiscal policy, in this case for 24 countries. The interwar measure is the fiscal surplus as a percentage of GDP. The current data include the IMF's World Economic Outlook Update forecasts for 2009 and 2010. As can be seen, fiscal deficits expanded after 1929 but only modestly. Clearly, willingness to run deficits today is considerably greater.

Figure 6. Government Budget Surpluses, Now vs Then

Source: Bordo et al. (2001), IMF World Economic Outlook, January 2009. [They added some country data in their revision that I put here, hence the two figure 5's, but they are labeled as such on the website and I did not change their labellling - JFM]

New Figure 5. Industrial output, four big Europeans, then and now

New Figure 6. Industrial output, four Non-Europeans, then and now.

The facts for Chile, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Sweden are displayed below;

New Figure 7: Industrial output, four small Europeans, then and now.

Conclusion

To summarise: the world is currently undergoing an economic shock every bit as big as the Great Depression shock of 1929-30. Looking just at the US leads one to overlook how alarming the current situation is even in comparison with 1929-30.

The good news, of course, is that the policy response is very different. The question now is whether that policy response will work. For the answer, stay tuned for our next column.


By John Mauldin

John Mauldin, Best-Selling author and recognized financial expert, is also editor of the free Thoughts From the Frontline that goes to over 1 million readers each week. For more information on John or his FREE weekly economic letter go to: http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/learnmore

To subscribe to John Mauldin's E-Letter please click here:http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/subscribe.asp

Copyright 2008 John Mauldin. All Rights Reserved
John Mauldin is president of Millennium Wave Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor. All material presented herein is believed to be reliable but we cannot attest to its accuracy. Investment recommendations may change and readers are urged to check with their investment counselors before making any investment decisions. Opinions expressed in these reports may change without prior notice. John Mauldin and/or the staff at Millennium Wave Advisors, LLC may or may not have investments in any funds cited above. Mauldin can be reached at 800-829-7273.

Disclaimer PAST RESULTS ARE NOT INDICATIVE OF FUTURE RESULTS. THERE IS RISK OF LOSS AS WELL AS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR GAIN WHEN INVESTING IN MANAGED FUNDS. WHEN CONSIDERING ALTERNATIVE INVESTMENTS, INCLUDING HEDGE FUNDS, YOU SHOULD CONSIDER VARIOUS RISKS INCLUDING THE FACT THAT SOME PRODUCTS: OFTEN ENGAGE IN LEVERAGING AND OTHER SPECULATIVE INVESTMENT PRACTICES THAT MAY INCREASE THE RISK OF INVESTMENT LOSS, CAN BE ILLIQUID, ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE PERIODIC PRICING OR VALUATION INFORMATION TO INVESTORS, MAY INVOLVE COMPLEX TAX STRUCTURES AND DELAYS IN DISTRIBUTING IMPORTANT TAX INFORMATION, ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE SAME REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS AS MUTUAL FUNDS, OFTEN CHARGE HIGH FEES, AND IN MANY CASES THE UNDERLYING INVESTMENTS ARE NOT TRANSPARENT AND ARE KNOWN ONLY TO THE INVESTMENT MANAGER.

John Mauldin Archive

© 2005-2012 http://www.MarketOracle.co.uk - The Market Oracle is a FREE Daily Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting online publication.


Comments


Post Comment (Moderated)




Commenting Issue - If on submitting you are returned to the main Index Page (50% chance) then your comment has not been accepted, Follow below steps for 95% chance of comment being accepted.

  1. Click your browser Back button (from main index page).
  2. COPY your comment text from Comment box (i.e. copy to clipboard).
  3. Press PAGE Refresh - You should see the message "You are not authorized to carry out this operation"
  4. Paste your comment back into the comment text box.
  5. Click Submit - If everything goes okay you will remain on the article page with the message "Your comment was held for moderation and will be reviewed shortly".
  6. If instead you are again returned to the main index page then repeat 1-5, alternatively EMAIL to comments @ marketoracle.co.uk quoting the article number.

FREE Deflation Survival GuideFREE Updated 118 Page Independant Investor E-book